starter trouble

[Jonnyd]

OK, to be honest I hope I haven't done anything stupid but I'm pretty sure I have.

Friday night get home from work and I notice the fan hasn't quite stopped on the heater. I fiddled with it a bit an it seemed to stop. Next morning I turn ignition and the fan starts, I turn it off properly and try to start the engine. Not a thing, battery totally flat. I gave it a couple of turns with the hand crank but nothing (I can never get lawnmowers to start so I wasn't that surprised).
Got a lift to work.
That night I removed the battery and charged it at home.
This morning take fully charged battery and reconnect. I go to start and notice the accelerator pedal. I'd snagged the accelerator cable, irritated that I had done it I started to undo the - to free the cable and realised (by the sparks as the spanner touched the car) I'd left the ignition on. I turned it off and reconnected everything properly.
Of course after all that the engine turns over but doesnt start.
Getting back from work tonight (not starting)I checked the carb and there's fuel there. I will check the plugs hopefully in the morning and the distributor. Fuel pump is ticking.
Really really annoyed with myself for trying to do it in a hurry this morning and gimping around with the crank as I'm sure it would have been simple if I had taken time. And had a coffee first ofc.
Thanks in advance for any help
Jon

[kennatt]

[ (by the sparks as the spanner touched the car) [/quote]
what were you touching,and was the cable somehow snagged on the live terminal of the battery bit more info required.

[bmcecosse]

Sounds like there is an Ign switch problem - although don't understand 'fan not stopped' since it should be wired through the Ign switch. Also - why did 'sparks' mean that the Ign was still on?? Seems you have a habit of leaving the Ign on?? Do the Ign and Oil lights work ok?

[Jonnyd]

I assumed that the fan had flattened the battery as nothing else had been turned on, other than the lights which were definitely off. Obviously if the fan is wired to the ignition then its not that. Definitely didn't leave the ignition on as my house keys are on the same set.
Ah, true the ignition wouldnt make a difference to me earthing The battery. You'll have to excuse me, I'm learning this as I go tbh.
So today I followed the advice of another thread and poured an eggcup of petrol down the throat of the carb, still nothing. Took the dist cap off and had a look, all looks clean and tidy.
Ign and oil lights appear to be fine, both go on at key turn, oil goes off at starter being pulled. ign goes off when not idle.
Just left the ign on the once.
I'll have to check the plugs tomorrow

[bmcecosse]

It's perfectly possible on my car to pull the key out with the Ign in the ON position. If you did this (by accident) and left the Ign on all night, that would certainly flatten the battery - and may have fried the coil....... So in this case - it MAY BE the coil. Can you put a meter on it to tell us the ohms?? Do you have any sparks at the plugs ??

[Jonnyd]

May of done then, funnily enough after my last escapade I have a spare coil and tried it but no change so put the old one back on. Will check the plugs in the morning

[mike.perry]

A point to note:- You cannot start an engine with the starting handle if the battery is completely flat, you need at least enough power to light the ignition light.

[bmcecosse]

But a tow start (or a run down a GOOD hill) will work - as the generator will start to push out some power - enough to feed the coil and the fuel pump.

[Jonnyd]

Thanks chaps, hopefully I'll get it going in the morning. Day off so have plenty of time to get stuck in
How can I check for a spark? Do I need a tester?

[mogbob]

It easier with one but no is the answer.Remove a spark plug and replace the HT lead , laying the plug on the engine block.This is to make a good earth contact.( Some people prefer to pin it down with an offcut of wood or properly insulated pliers..NEVER use your hand ).So long as the engine block contact is clean and not covered in grease/ oil just resting it on the engine usually works.
Check car in neutral and switch on.A helper is useful but you can use the solenoid in the engine compartment, with the ingnition on.The car will run you over, if you left it in gear and the engine fires !!
If your surroundings are quiet, you should hear it " crack " as well as see a good healthy spark.

No spark
Remove the distributer cap , having marked the leads with their sequence order.
Is there a spark at the points when the car is started.Yes is good news, it means the problem is some where between the rotor arm and the plugs.Points gap correct.
Spark plugs in good order, no broken insulators, clean, not bunged up.
Check integrity of leads, secure in the cap and the plug ends.
Coil end connection OK.
Clean contacts in the cap.
Carbon pin ( King lead...the one from the coil) and an effective tiny spring operating OK.Just gently push the pin in and out with
your finger nail.Don't pull it out unless something is wrong.
No tiny visible cracks in the plastic body.
Rotor arm tip clean.If not remove and rub it against a tyre, replace.
Low tension leads...distributer to coil.. sound clean connection.
Little earth tag wire in the distributer still attached/ sound.

Given that the car did run OK before, my list is probably OTT.It will be something simple.Take your time and work it through logically.
Bob

[Jonnyd]

Still not got the plugs out as having trouble getting a socket set but will do. Thanks for that mate, brilliant post!
I had a condenser in the car so swapped it in and it started first time. I took it for a little drive around everything was fine then a loss of power and it cut out. Took the dist cap off, and the arm put all back together and it started. Limped back home with lots of spluttering.
Realised when I got home the nut had come loose/i hadnt tightened up properly the wire to the coil and it was rattling around.




Idiot

[mogbob]

I'll join you as an idiot ( which you're not ) for leaving the condenser off my list !!
Glad you cracked it.
A very high percentage of breakdowns are due to electrical faults, so keeping the ignition system in top nick, should be high on every classic car owners priority list.
A trip around Norway in classic cars a few years ago, produced three seperate electrical breakdowns with three different cars ( not mine, I add ).All had been professionally serviced by garages.
Several thousand feet up on a mountain pass, snow piled 10 feet high on the sides...nearest garage ?? Dream on....
All sorted within half an hour.
Moral of the story...good clean electrical contacts and everything gapped and bolted /screwed down tight, if you don't wont to get stuck.
Bob

[Jonnyd]

Going to pop down the road and grab Another condenser, rotor arm etc. Just to keep around. Thanks all for your help, cheers bob. I will be using your previous post as reference for ages lol.

[mogbob]

There are a lot of " naff " rotor arms in circulation still.I'd spend a little extra on a " red top" one.
See http://www.distributordoctor.comfor explanation.Martin knows more about distributors than you would ever possibly need to know !!
I've no connection, just a satisfied customer and of course there are other suppliers ( ESM uses / sells DistributorDoctor rotor
arms )
Bob