Rear hub in-and-out movement

Post by **Fingolfin** » Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:07 pm

Evening all,

I've seen that others have had this same problem, but I was unable to find a clear answer as to how to solve it. The trouble is that the left-rear hub moves in and out about 2mm under moderate hand pressure, but the bearing is pressed on as far as it will go (and the nut done up as tightly as possible). The hub moves around the bearing, which itself does not move and is not worn (it in fact is new). I've had an oil leak back here, though I replaced the inner seal and O-ring (and gasket, though I know that's a can of worms) recently, and I fear it's due to the hub moving as it does.

Soooo...is it down to the hub being worn? I can think of nothing else that would cause it.

Post by **Fingolfin** » Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:54 am

I should add that I'm not just terrifically concerned about the leakage, because I had inadvertently massively overfilled the axle -- put in about 1 3/5 liters when the book calls for .85 or 17/20 of a liter. It's the play in the hub I'm concerned about.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:13 am

Are you sure the bearing is the correct width? Obviously the movement is not correct...

Post by **IslipMinor** » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:46 am

The bearing is not moving on the axle end? It is held in place properly by the nut? It is the hub that is moving on the bearing?

Presumably it is moving even when the halfshaft is in place and the countersunk screw tightened? If you remove the gasket between the hub and the halfshaft flange, is there still movement?

2mm is a huge amount of wear to have in a hub, and although not impossible, is very unlikely, so I would check the right bearing has been fitted. It should be a LJ35 or 6207 and is 17mm wide (the bearing is 'metric'). What is the width of the bearing you have?

Post by **RobThomas** » Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:58 pm

Some further research was done via E-mail and PMs after the previous thread was locked. The cause of the problem has been found but I need the permission of the 'finder' before I can PM you with the results since it is not for me to permit general dissemination through this website. Fingolfin, do you have any casting number on the back of that hub or any marks like a diamond shape?

Mick. If you are reading this can you get in touch? Your e-mail is still bouncing.
Thanks
Rob

PS. http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=45598

Post by **Fingolfin** » Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:08 pm

I am not sure the bearing is correct -- I ordered it as part of a kit from ESM and, as it looked roughly the same dimensions as the old bearing (which was somewhat worn, which is why I replaced it) and appeared to fit properly, I assumed it was right. Perhaps a problematic assumption. I should note here that Mog has the later-type axle -- not sure if that makes a difference in hub and bearing sizes.

The bearing was not moving at all -- the hub was moving around it. I did not try it with the halfshaft on, but after reading this I attempted to do so and the halfshaft flat was held off the hub by about a millimeter (it was NOT like that before). The hub is now removed from the car and sitting next to my keyboard: the bearing appears to be the 6207 type (the full read of markings is thus: "SKF EXPLORER SKF 6207 MY 03 12 118H"), but my wooden ruler shows it to be about 15mm through, rather than 17mm. It could be perspective is corrupting my view, but I tried it in several different angles and they all appeared between 14 and 16. If so, this could be my problem.

There is no diamond casting on the back of the hub, but it appears to have "2A 7088" on the back, next to one of the wheel studs (note that these numbers are rather worn, so I'm only partially sure this is what it says). Here is a photo:[frame]

[/frame]
And here is a photo of the whole rear of the hub. Since it retains its inboard lip, I don't see that it can have worn terrifically much, but I stand a good chance of being wrong.[frame]

[/frame]
Here is the bearing -- of course the numbers aren't visible at this distance, but you can see how it seems to be roughly the right size. Can't get a photo of its depth, though.[frame]

[/frame]

Post by **ampwhu** » Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:24 pm

hub is worn. this happened to me. i just got another hub and haven't had any problems since.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:32 pm

Can you find a way to measure the bearing thickness - accurately? It SHOULD be 17 mm thick - if not, this will explain the end float.... Can you lay it along side the old bearing on a flat surface , and place a straight edge across ?

Post by **Fingolfin** » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:37 pm

I took out the bearing. It appears to be about 16.5mm thick.[frame]

[/frame]

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:09 pm

I think that's 17mm all right. It was bound to be, if a genuine 6207 bearing was used.

Post by **RobThomas** » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:41 pm

Correct bearing. SKF don't make anything thinner than 17mm in 72/35. The bit after the 6207 is the cage detail, Brass in your case.

Without giving much away, Ampwhu has good advice and you might want to keep a look out for MG Midget rear hubs instead of the one you've been using.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:04 pm

What's not to 'give away' ?? Surely we share knowledge/advice freely on here? I don't see Spridget hubs being any different...

Post by **IslipMinor** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:14 am

All Sprite, Midget and Minor (A-Series engines) rear hubs are the same part number 2A7087. I don't have any reference data, but probably the Wolseley 1500 and Riley 1.5 as well? Could be that the casting number is 2A7088 and the machined part is 2A7087? Google comes up with nothing BMC/Midget/Minor related with 2A7088, but lots of references to rear hubs with 2A7087.

Post by **IslipMinor** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:28 am

Some further research was done via E-mail and PMs after the previous thread was locked.

Why was the thread locked, who does it and for what reason?

Post by **Fingolfin** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:49 am

Just to be sure then, the consensus is that the hub is badly worn and must be replaced? I should note that the other rear hub has no such free play.

There's one Midget in a junkyard near here and I think it's already been purchased. However, I do have my other Minor, Stiltzkin...I have little confidence that its hubs are in good condition, but it's certainly worth a look. ESM sell secondhand ones, of course, and I can always trawl eBay.

Post by **IslipMinor** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:09 am

When the bearing is fitted in the hub, if you place a straight edge across the hub face, is there a gap down to the bearing? It should be flush, or even a very small amount proud to the hub the allow for the gasket thickness. Also make sure that you only use one thin gasket, and the o-ring of course.

When it is all tightened up with the brake drum and wheel on, is there sliding movement then?

Post by **RobThomas** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:20 pm

What's not to 'give away' ?? Surely we share knowledge/advice freely on here?

Having put EFFORT into finding a solution it is the right of the individual to decide who can benefit from their work whilst posting info freely allows any old Troll to come along and criticize without themselves having to contribute to the labours. The final solution to the issue of the deforming hubs was found as a result of extensive investigation by someone who now chooses to share with those of their choice and without the approval of the discoverer of the info I cannot and will not divulge it.

Tedious, but unfortunately that is just the way it is.

Post by **katy** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:53 pm

Is the bearing supposed to be a press fit in the hub? Or is it designed to be "clamped" between the hub and the axle shaft?

Post by **les** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:39 pm

Interesting reason for not disclosing and you won't need telling that it's up to you. If I am ever in a position to 'discover' an apparent solution to something of interest, be sure I would be happy to share. I understand the guy who has been chatting to you has asked you to keep quiet so you are in an awkward position but your post almost seems that you agree with him. Pretty sure who this man is and IF I'm correct, I'm not surprised at his attitude, in the end he threw his toys out of the pram over this hub issue.

Post by **Fingolfin** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:27 pm

Islip, the bearing stands just a little proud of the flat face of the bearing -- probably a bit less than 1mm. I did have a single paper gasket along with the o-ring in there. Unfortunately, as I was unable (for whatever unclear reason) to get the halfshaft to sit on the hub again after discovering this issue, I don't know if there remained play when it was all tightened down.

Katy, I think (I don't know for certain) it's a combination of the two -- one has to drift the bearing in, suggesting a "press fit", but it's an extremely tight fit onto the axle shaft as well. In a proper setup, I think there should only be motion in the balls themselves!

I removed a hub from Stiltzkin and it's not in horrible shape (bit rustier than Mog's), so I'm going to clean it up and try it -- perhaps I'll be lucky. If not, Stiltzkin has another, and I can always get one from other places.

I'd just like to remind folks -- we already had all this out on one thread -- let's not do it again!

Morris Minor Owners Club

Rear hub in-and-out movement

Rear hub in-and-out movement

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