National Rally photos

[HotRod]

I have a question, This photo has been modified, is it still a photo?[frame][/frame] Now this was all started by comments made about the validity of the diesel front wheel drive car, that car has some fantastic engineering, its easy-ish to fit a bigger engine or 5 speed box, the real challenge is doing stuff like changing a rear wheel drive car to a front wheel drive and making it work well, ok it's not the same as a standard minor but that's irrelevant, if it was it'd be parked elsewhere on the field, the whole point here is there are CATEGORIES for same old and there are CATEGORIES for modified cars, a custom car is just a modified car but modified more, so what I'm getting at is this, if the customs & modifieds were lined up in the standard morris minor car park and claiming to be such then you could compare them and complain about metric nuts etc, but they are not, by definition and the place they were parked they are not the same and cannot be compared to a standard car. They are ALL morris minors just some are modified morris minors. The question "When does a morris minor stop being a morris minor?" the answer is simple, either when it's been through the crusher or when it has no minor parts ie it's a jaguar xj6, or a bmw 5 series. If it started life as a minor and it's paperwork V5C says morris minor, then it's a minor regardless of levels of modifications, and as for "don't like front wheel drive" well that's your choice but remember the great man intended it to be front wheel drive in the first place! Just one more point, the modified & custom group received far more attention than the same old same old cars on a one to one basis, simply because they are different, I did a walk of the main same old section and to be honest when you find hundreds of standard spec cars lined up it does get a bit "if you've seen one you've seen em all" and that can't be said of the custom cars.

[lambrettalad]

agreed I like it when the different types(is that the wrong word ?) (not that i'm now paranoid?) are all jumbled up

otherwise it seems a bit like the Queen walking down a line of troops when she really wants to talk to the chap/ess behind in the second row

[theminorsite]

agreed I like it when the different types(is that the wrong word ?) (not that i'm now paranoid?) are all jumbled up

otherwise it seems a bit like the Queen walking down a line of troops when she really wants to talk to the chap/ess behind in the second row

Look, I know some people were dressed in odd costumes, but calling them 'queens' is too much!

[badobsession]

"if you've seen one you've seen em all" and that can't be said of the custom cars.

[kingzdjc]

"if you've seen one you've seen em all" and that can't be said of the custom cars.

Yes, that might be true, but isnt the Morris Motor club about preservation, as the club says in its motto?

The fact is, that your 'modified' minors may be more interesting than a standard to minor to some people, but at the end of the day, those who choose to keep their Minor standard(ish) are the ones that will preserve this car for future generations.

Look what happened to some of the old 30s Fords, ie the Ford model B, the V8. Its next to impossible to get hold of a standard one, nearly everyone in existance now has a 'roof chop' or has been made into a 'hotrod'.

Its ashame really. Im not saying that the modified 'minors' arent interesting, its just I see them more of a threat to the standard Minor, the way the Minor was built and intended.
I hope in another 50 years time, the only Minors will not be those with bodykits and roof chops, because the original Minor is seen as 'boring'.

Simple really, if you dont like the standard Minor, and want something more 'exciting', then why not buy something more exotic to start with?

To the comment made about fuel being different so it changes the way the Minor handles etc, really, thats pathetic. I am not on about the use of different tires tio the original Minor, or using a different quality of petrol than what was put in originally, I am on about serious modifications, mods that change the spirit of the original car.

And no, just because it says it is a Minor on a piece of paper does not make it a Minor. So you would argue that if a Minor was modified to such an extent, that only one panel was from the original Minor, it is still a Minor? It is not.

[frosty]

Simple really, if you dont like the standard Minor, and want something more 'exciting', then why not buy something more exotic to start with?

A Morry in any guise is exotic.

I can understand why they sell a lot of anoraks in cat grinning land ...

[Lukezaid]

Fair enough if a car is low mileage, rare or in really nice rust free condition then keep it original or restore it to original. But if the said car isnt and you save it from a scrap yard or field is it not better for the owner to build the car how they wish, then allow the car to be scrapped or to perish beyond repair. Thus also assisting in supply and demand for parts keeping new ones in production

[mgfw]

Quote (Yes, that might be true, but isnt the Morris Motor club about preservation, as the club says in its motto?)
If it's all about preservation and that's what the public want to see they should go to a museum, it's indoors so it doesn't rain, I don't see the law that says it's bad to change things, I personally wouldn't be seen dead in a ford mondeo, unless it was outrageously modified, it's my personality, I am not a sheep! but that's what cars and car mods are all about "personality" if you want exactly the same car as every other boring personality void person then that's your choice but as a free thinking individual I like to stand out from the flock, call us rebels if you like but it's the rebels of the world that change the mundane to the exciting! Quote (Look what happened to some of the old 30s Fords, ie the Ford model B, the V8. Its next to impossible to get hold of a standard one, nearly everyone in existance now has a 'roof chop' or has been made into a 'hotrod'.) Fantastic! Customising cars has been going on for as long as cars have been in existance, so each has it's own place and each has it's own equal right to exist!

[theminorsite]

"if you've seen one you've seen em all" and that can't be said of the custom cars.

Yes, that might be true, but isnt the Morris Motor club about preservation, as the club says in its motto?

The fact is, that your 'modified' minors may be more interesting than a standard to minor to some people, but at the end of the day, those who choose to keep their Minor standard(ish) are the ones that will preserve this car for future generations.

Look what happened to some of the old 30s Fords, ie the Ford model B, the V8. Its next to impossible to get hold of a standard one, nearly everyone in existance now has a 'roof chop' or has been made into a 'hotrod'.

Its ashame really. Im not saying that the modified 'minors' arent interesting, its just I see them more of a threat to the standard Minor, the way the Minor was built and intended.
I hope in another 50 years time, the only Minors will not be those with bodykits and roof chops, because the original Minor is seen as 'boring'.

Simple really, if you dont like the standard Minor, and want something more 'exciting', then why not buy something more exotic to start with?

To the comment made about fuel being different so it changes the way the Minor handles etc, really, thats pathetic. I am not on about the use of different tires tio the original Minor, or using a different quality of petrol than what was put in originally, I am on about serious modifications, mods that change the spirit of the original car.

And no, just because it says it is a Minor on a piece of paper does not make it a Minor. So you would argue that if a Minor was modified to such an extent, that only one panel was from the original Minor, it is still a Minor? It is not.

kingzdjc,
You make some valid points, but you're assuming that that any modified car is one that is lost to the standard fraternity, and that isn't the case. Many mods are completely reversible - much of JLH's stuff is bolt on replacement - and should the need arise it can all go back. It's not likely, because there are many many Minors left, but a 5-speed box can be removed and nobody ever need know it had been there.

Just as relevant, we intentionally chose the very worst car we could find to start our project on, a car that was only ever fit for spares. Nobody would ever have restored our car to original spec, because there were far better candidates that would have cost less to get back to good condition. Doing it this way added several thousand pounds to our cost, but we did that precisely to avoid the accusations you're hinting at - no 'standard' car was lost to the Minor fraternity in order to build our car, and its more that there is one more Minor because of our intervention rather than one less!

I had a 'first year' Mini van about 6 years ago, smooth roof air vent model, and since I was completely ignorant as to its rarity, I happily set about changing it - fat arches and Minilites, Metro turbo engine, etc etc. I was (rightly) castigated, and having discovered that there are very few of these early ones left, I immediately sold it to someone who wanted to put it back to standard.

[mgfw]

preservation is for museums, I don't see myself as a dusty old cobweb covered museum attendant, I'm alive, I have my own individuality and personality, I build a car to stand out, to say "look at me, I'm no sheep" and with regard to events, the majority of the public will come to see the innovative individual artistic rubber burning fun cars and that's what brings paying customers through the gate. Probably one of the least pretty cars with not so much attention to polish was the front wheel drive diesel but it got far more interest and attention than any standard car at the rally, simply because "if you've seen one standard minor, you've seen them all" attitude, and it's true, the huge area of standard cars at the rally looked just like a car park because the public were is the custom section. Customization has as much history as standard builds, it's been around as long and has as much right to exist as every other car, you cannot deny what has been around as long as what you accept, they are each as important as the other. and as for leaving these cars the way they were intended, intended by who? if you mean Sir Alec, he intended them to be front wheel drive. The morris minor was built throughout the hippy era, so we should all have peace man, chill, lay back and see everything through rose tinted lenses, don't need the hassle man, love everything cos everything is groovy! Ya dig?

[chrisd87]

Reluctant to weigh in on this one, but kingzdjc seems to be heavily outnumbered!

There has to come a point when something is so heavily modified that it can no longer realistically be regarded as the same article as the original. Once you go as far as removing and replacing in radically different form, most of the floorpan and underbody structure of the car, the entire running gear (including engine/box/suspension/brakes/axle), and most of the interior, it becomes hard to argue it's really the same car in anything but appearance. It won't drive or ride anything remotely approximating the original, and won't be remotely similar to work on. Especially so, in this case, as the 'architecture' of the car has been changed with the conversion from rear to front wheel drive. All that is really left is a cosmetic 'tent' of the original, sitting on top of what is basically a kit car.

To illustrate - if I were to strip the screen, speaker and all the electronics out of a 1950s television set, and replace them with the same from a modern high-definition LCD TV, the end product would not be a 1950s television set. Superficially it might look fairly similar, but you couldn't realistically argue it was the same thing.

That's not to say I'm against all modifications, far from it. I'd love a 1275-engined Minor. I do, however, agree with kingzdjc that we must look upon the fate of some other classic/vintage cars as a cautionary tale - we don't want to get to a situation where standard/standardish cars are a rarity. If that were the case, we would have failed to preserve the Minor as we know and love it.

[mgfw]

KIT CAR!!!!! KIT CAR? that's offensive and insulting! there is absolutely nothing KIT about it! it did not come in boxes with written instructions like ikea! or dutton, So if it's not a morris minor as stated on the V5C what is it? Legally and for all intents and purposes it started out as a morris minor, it has had many modifications but unless you think it should be called a Jaguar or a Skoda the legal title and the original car it most resembles is a MORRIS MINOR. and the OWNER has the right to do with it whatever he wishes, it would probably be a bigger crime to buy minors and crush them for fun than chop n change them, and there are those breaking perfectly good cars for parts, but they don't get this flak. At the end of the day unless you can come up with a better argument than calling it an un-named "KIT CAR" which it certainly isn't, it is a modified morris minor. oh and it has MANY METRIC NUTS

[chrisryder]

My minor (Bluey) doesn't have its original 1098 engine, the engine has a cylinder head off a mini (or midget or some other 1275), the carb off a marina, an aftermarket exhaust, marina disc brakes, a servo, a ford gearbox, aftermarket wheels, poly bushes, traveller rear springs, an antiroll bar, an oil cooler off a Midget, and it's even got a stereo from Halfords.

Lots of unoriginal parts. Lots of bits from lots of other cars....

It doesn't handle like a Morris Minor, it doesn't sound like a Morris Minor, it doesn't perform like a Morris Minor, some of it doesn't even look like a Morris Minor, and it certainly stops better than a Morris Minor.

So what is it?

[mgfw]

It's a Morris Minormarinamidgetsierrahalfordsaftermarket, try saying that after a couple of pints!

[chrisryder]

Forgot to mention...

It doesn't handle like a Morris Minor, it doesn't sound like a Morris Minor, it doesn't perform like a Morris Minor, some of it doesn't even look like a Morris Minor, and it certainly stops better than a Morris Minor.

... GOOD!

I'd probably be dead now if it was standard!

[theminorsite]

My minor (Bluey) doesn't have its original 1098 engine, the engine has a cylinder head off a mini (or midget or some other 1275), the carb off a marina, an aftermarket exhaust, marina disc brakes, a servo, a ford gearbox, aftermarket wheels, poly bushes, traveller rear springs, an antiroll bar, an oil cooler off a Midget, and it's even got a stereo from Halfords.

Lots of unoriginal parts. Lots of bits from lots of other cars....

It doesn't handle like a Morris Minor, it doesn't sound like a Morris Minor, it doesn't perform like a Morris Minor, some of it doesn't even look like a Morris Minor, and it certainly stops better than a Morris Minor.

So what is it?

Halfords?! Oh, you've done it now!

[mgfw]

It's a kit car

[mgfw]

The morris minor "kit car" i will be presenting next year will be nuclear powered!

[chrisryder]

based on a Ford Fusion then?

[kingzdjc]

(Look what happened to some of the old 30s Fords, ie the Ford model B, the V8. Its next to impossible to get hold of a standard one, nearly everyone in existance now has a 'roof chop' or has been made into a 'hotrod'.) Fantastic! Customising cars has been going on for as long as cars have been in existance, so each has it's own place and each has it's own equal right to exist!

No not fantastic, its a crying shame actually. What were great cars in their day, like the ford V8, the first afordable V8 to go into a mass produced car, are now such a rarity, such examples can only really be found in museums.

Someone mentioned about they customise their caar because they aint a sheep? But guess what, in the end, when everyone wants a 'custom' look car, you do become one of the sheep, and those who keep their cars original, like the old Fords, are not following the flock.

It looks like I am outnumbered, but that is only because the people on this particular thread have customised their Minors in some way, so of course are going to be biased.
Personally, if you want to customise your Minor, then thats of course up to you, and I am not disagreeing that there aint any interesting examples out there. But note that the people who are true lovers of Minors dont customise their car. Purely because when you do customise, you take away the feel and spirit of the Original car.

True Minor fans love their Minor the way it was built, and the way it was intended, which wasnt doing 90 on a motorway, or by putting in a diesal engine capable of doing 50mpg.