3-Branch LCB Manifold holes

Post by **Cam** » Sun Nov 17, 2002 7:11 pm

The other day, my Moggy started sounding like a tractor, and I assumed that the 3-branch stainless steel LCB manifold that I have had on the car for about 13 months had split at one of the welds. I assumed this because I have had this happen endless times on Minis.

Upon closer inspection, there is a hole in the 2 into 1 joint piece where the two outside exhaust ports (1 and 4) meet about 4mm in diameter. Not at a joint as you would expect, but in the middle of the flat piece of steel used to make the joint.

The strange thing is that there is another idential sized hole directly opposite it in the pipe that comes from the centre siamesed exhaust port (2 and 3).

I have never known of this before, could it be a fault in the metal causing the first hole and then the extra heat causing the second or is something fishy going on!!!!

The manifold is supposed to have a 15year guarantee as is the exhaust system.

I bought them both from the Morris Minor Centre in Birmingham.

I shall ring them tomorrow and ask them what they think, and more importantly if they will exchange it.

I would like anyones comments on possible causes, or if anyone else has experienced this.

Cam.

Post by **Cam** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 10:49 pm

Just in case anyone is interested!!

The holes were caused by a small weld (joining the centre pipe to the joint of the outer two) vibrating and causing cracks around the weld which eventually fell out.

I swapped the manifold this morning at the Morris Minor Centre in Birmingham for one which does not have this weld (improved design).

Now I have to get the carb mixture right as at 4000-5000 RPM I am getting glowing manifold syndrome!!

Post by **Cam** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 11:42 pm

Well!!

After fitting the replacement manifold back in November, the centre branch pipe to head flange weld has cracked and we are back to sounding like a tractor again!!!

The Morris Minor Centre in Birmingham replaced it (again) for me and I fitted it this evening after taking the entire exhaust system off first, in the wet and dark!!

After refitting everything and running the engine up to test, the alternator packed in!!!!

Just my luck!! so I nicked the one from my MGB and made it fit (after a bit of fiddling!). I'll buy a new one for the MG when it goes back on the road........that should give me a few months grace!!!

I just thought I'd let you all know to beware of shiny manifolds from Birmingham - they are not what they seem!!

Post by **Cam** » Fri Mar 07, 2003 7:22 pm

GRRRRRR!!!!

The 3rd manifold they have supplied keeps blowing manifold gaskets!!
The head flanges are bent (heat distorted), and so will not fit flush to the head.

I got about 30 miles out of the first one before it started sounding like a tractor again

After a lot of messing around, taking it easy and copious amounts of sealing paste it managed to hold together for a couple of weeks, until the Minor Centre in Birmingham had a new batch of manifolds in.

I will swap it over tomorrow for the 4th one!!

The trouble is, that when you change it, you have to remove the exhaust system first, which means mauling the multi-section pipe off while lying under the car. Fine in principle, but after the 3rd change it is starting to wear a little thin.

Especially (like tonight) it is raining and you get soaked through to your undergarments! - not pleasant. (can't use the garage - MGB in there under restoration!!)

What was that about lying on cold concrete floors?? at least they are dry!!

Sniff....

Post by **Kevin** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 9:44 am

Hi Cam you are staying quite calm considering ( lack of dry floor ) lets hope the 4th Manifold is OK and that their quality control has improved we all just assume that parts supplied will be fine, especially modifications ( supposedly more care and attention ) as someone has put the time and effort to produce an improved component

Post by **Cam** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 12:30 pm

I swapped the maifold over this morning and the first one I was given was a bit dodgy where the flange is welded to the downpipe, so I asked for a replacement, and picked the best of two more.

It was still not perfect but the welding was better. The flanges are a lot straighter than my old one but the front one is slighly bent (but in the right direction).

The inside of the flanges need a bit of fettling, as they have lumps of weld protruding into the pipe, so that will have to be removed first.

I am still not pleased with the quality of the items, even though they are manufactured by Falcon exhausts, who supply systems for XK-120s, E-Types, etc. They SHOULD know what they are doing, but I suspect it may be a case of 'it's only for a Minor so it will do' - which is ANNOYING!! Just because we can't afford a 40 grand second car, does not mean that we don't care for ours, or should put up with dodgy parts.

To be fair, the chap in the shop gave me a manifold gasket and clamp, free of charge.

We'll have to see how long this one lasts!!

Post by **Cam** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 6:25 pm

GGGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now I am not impressed.

We are sounding like a tractor again! But this time it's not the manifold but the first silencer box. It has split where the pipe from the manifold joins it - all the way around!!

I will have to use it tomorrow (50 miles) and hopefully exchange it for another one at the Morris Minor centre in Birmingham on Saturday.

The whole exhaust system has a 15 year guarantee, so I hope they will change the faulty section. It probably has not helped it being removed and replaced so many times, but that's not my fault, it's their's

Post by **sponehonda** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 3:46 am

Hi Cam, Sorry to hear about all your manifold problems. I have to say that these-days, workman-ship & quality seem to come a very distant second place, behind quantity. As you say I wonder would they make one of the same quality for a Jag, Don't think so some how!!!.
All the best, with THIS REFIT.
Sam.

Post by **Gareth** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 11:06 am

I have seen a little sign in a garage. It reads:

If it is quick and cheap, it will not be goot quality
If it is quality and quick, it will not be cheap
If it is cheap and quality it will not be quick

If it is cheap, quality, and quick, it's also too good to be true!

I know that doesn't help much, mate, but like Sam says - have a look at the exhausts for Daimlers and Jags... They run into many hundreds of pounds.

Hope you can get is all sorted, anyway - maybe they'd let you pick up a new manifold to save you a trip next time! *runs for cover*

Post by **Cam** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 11:56 am

The thing is, I don't call £210 for the system particularly cheap!! especially when it has discoloured so badly after such a short time. I showed to to my dad who is a metalworker and he said that it was made from the poor quality (cheap) stainless steel.

It does seem quite a lot compared to a 'normal' system costing £35!

Thanks for the support though, guys!

maybe they'd let you pick up a new manifold to save you a trip next time! *runs for cover*

AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Post by **Gareth** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 12:46 pm

£210?! Ooooohh, I don't feel well.
I remember having that much money, once!

Quick ~ smelling salts!

Go and give 'em hell tomorrow morning.

The discolouring is fairly natural for stainless, I understand, and given the high state of tune of your Minor, then it could be possible, but then again, you have an authorised, competent professional willing to state that the system is of poor quality steel.

Ah, go on. Have a rant. You'll feel better (though they might not!).

Post by **Cam** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 4:02 pm

The discolouring is fairly natural for stainless

Oh yes! but surface rust isn't

not after less than 2 years, anyway.

Post by **sponehonda** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 5:24 pm

Hi Guys, I seem to have been missinterperated, (I hope this is spelt correctly)

, with this quote; "As you say I wonder would they make one of the same quality for a Jag, Don't think so some how!!!.". I was actually agreeing with cam here, and not saying he was buying cheap parts, as I know only too well that there is no such thing as a CHEAP tunning part. When you pay GOOD money (as cam has), you EXPECT a GOOD product. I have bought fourth hand L.C.B.'s, for a fraction of what cam has paid, and they have lasted longer!!!!. SHAME ON YOU "FALCON EXHAUSTS", Oh and its ok them replacing the item, but what about the time after time after time, of refitting it.
All the best.
Sam.

Post by **sponehonda** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 5:25 pm

Hi Guys, I seem to have been missinterperated, (I hope this is spelt correctly)

, with this quote; "As you say I wonder would they make one of the same quality for a Jag, Don't think so some how!!!.". I was actually agreeing with cam here, and not saying he was buying cheap parts, as I know only too well that there is no such thing as a CHEAP tunning part. When you pay GOOD money (as cam has), you EXPECT a GOOD product. I have bought fourth hand L.C.B.'s, for a fraction of what cam has paid, and they have lasted longer!!!!. SHAME ON YOU "FALCON EXHAUSTS", Oh and its ok them replacing the item, but what about the time after time after time, of refitting it.
All the best.
Sam.

Post by **Cam** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 5:50 pm

Don't worry Sam, I did not think you were saying I had bought cheap parts, as there seems to be no alternative suppliers that I know of!

I would not have minded paying a bit more if I was going to get a good quality product, but the option was simply not available.

The system is not ideal for a number of reasons, firstly the obvious quality (or lack of it) with regard to materials, secondly the welding was of poor quality and thirdly although it is marketed as a 'large bore' system it is very restrictive at 1 1/2" diameter. There seems to be no other Moggy system available at the more suitable diameter of 2". Even though there is a 1275 Midget system available at this diameter.

Ah well, I'll just have to put up with mine or suffer the headache of making my own.................but that's for the future!

Post by **Gareth** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 12:13 pm

Mr Grumpy sells a "big bore" exhaust, and 3-branch manifold, although I can't ratify the quality.

Have you thought about one of the other mail-order type places that advertise in Practical Classics? They would be able to make a bespoke exhaust and manifold. Don't know about the prices, but I can't see that it would be too far removed from what you're paying for the Falcon ones...

I hope that when these off-the-shelf items are made there isn't a degree of "it's only a Minor" mentality...

Post by **h_____** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 7:23 am

I too have the birmingham exhaust system and concur that the quality of Stainless steel isnt up to much. Mine is discoloured and showing signs of rust after 2years. I am not impressed. The last SS exhaust I had on a morris was ages old (got it second hand) it had far less discolouration and no rust.

Cam, How well does your exhaust fit? I have a convertable, that has extra chassis sections and the exhaust is a *very* tight fit over the axle. we have to accept a certain amount of knocking with it. Also this makes the ground clearance of the morris worse than my 911 !!!!

If you ever get a better solution, let us all know.

regards

h

Post by **Cam** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 11:34 am

H,

My exhaust does not fit very well at all.

It hangs down a bit too far at the bend before the joint with the rear section.

The problem is that I have got radius arms and telescopic shockers with turrets mounted through the boot floor, so there is next to no room for the exhaust!

Also, the front box does not sit level and seems to be at an angle.

Also this makes the ground clearance of the morris worse than my 911 !!!!

Yes! I can appreciate that! Mine is quite low, although with a lot of fidding around (this time) and making a centre mount in a more convenient place I have managed to raise mine by roughly just under an inch (about 20-23mm). It is quite close to the shocker and radius arm, but it is held a bit more securely now. It does not hit anything (yet!) but only time will tell.

Gareth,
I would try other suppliers, but the problem is that after spending that much money, I cannot justify (or afford) to spend another 200 odd quid for another exhaust system, as I can't return the whole system to the Birmingham centre now. Thanks for the thought though!

Post by **Gareth** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 2:17 pm

Yeah, see your point!

Post by **h_____** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 12:50 pm

Cam, your fitting is the same as mine, the bend before the rear axle, and my front box does not sit level, which caues the exit pipe to go down at an angle. Interesting that you say the radius arms get in the way. I dont have any, but have considered this, however, with the extra chassis sections and tele dampers maybe its not such a good idea.