LPG conversion

Post by **Ben** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:44 pm

I want to convert Trudy to LPG, oil prices are only going to rise. Has anyone got any idea where to start? I want to fit it myself, but have heard that insurance companies don't find this idea very funny. A starting point is all I really need, so any advice would be brilliant.

Post by **Chris Morley** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 7:02 pm

Put 'LPG' in the search box and you'll find another thread on this from early August. I understand that by law the LPG tank has to be fitted by accredited engineers and you're looking at over £1000 - it's unlikely to make financial sense unless you do a lot of miles.

Post by **ColinP** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 7:20 pm

Also, remember that "LPG" = liquified petroleum gas. True, it's things like propane, butane etc, but these are still hydrocarbons - gas prices are rising (shortfall), so it may not make any sense to change. The only reason it's cheaper is the lower tax.

It's actually less efficient per kg than petrol...

Colin

Post by **Gareth** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 7:38 pm

At the moment the tax is lower, but as soon as it becomes more popular (several manufacturers already supply dual-fuel cars from the factory, and have done for some time) I'm sure our elected tormentors will catch on, nudging a tax hike in through the back door.

Also, I believe that many insurance companies now ask to see a certificate proving that the conversion has been done to certain standards... So, in short, I think you have to have it professionally fitted and you're never going to get a PowerShift grant on a Moggy...!

Post by **123_Paul** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:04 pm

its a shame mogs dont run on diesel as you can run them on cooking oil http://www.veggiepower.org.uk/main.htm

Post by **Kevin** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:34 pm

Hmmm a moggie thats smells of popcorn

Post by **Matt** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:06 pm

run them on cooking oil

You still need to pay road duty, and its up to you if you want stray dogs following your car around because it smells like a chippy!!

Post by **doobry** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:45 pm

I want to convert Trudy to LPG, oil prices are only going to rise. Has anyone got any idea where to start?

The price of crude oil + petrol processing is only a minute part of the price of petrol and the majority of the price is tax. Therefore there has not been a huge rise in the number of LPG conversions - If there had been then nobody would be better off, because the government would have to increase LPG duty to cover the lost fuel revenue.
It's down to the owner to take a gamble - you risk loosing all your money on an LPG conversion which would be worthless if LPG duty rises a lot, and you have to hope that this doesn't happened before you've done somewhere like 40,000 or 50,000 miles to get your money back (I only guessed the miles - you'd need to check the installation and running cost).
There is a taxi firm near here that uses LPG for their airport taxi fleet, and as they do about 3 hundred thousand miles on their cars over a few years they have saved tens of thousands overall - Therefore it's not doom and gloom, just a case of doing the numbers then taking a gamble.

Post by **Ben** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:16 am

I've done the rough maths, and using a 50p price difference between petrol and LPG (I did say rough), an economy of 40mpg, and £1000 fitting cost, it came out at 18,000 miles max to get my money back. Being a surfer, and therefore having my boards on the roof a lot, I don't often get 40mpg, so it should come earlier if anything. 18,000 miles is only just over a years driving for me, so it may well be worth it. I do like the idea of running on chip fat though, maybe a cheeky conversion to a Compression Ignition A-series should be in the pipeline!!

Post by **Chris Morley** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:11 pm

You've not included the fact that LPG doesn't give you the same mileage - a litre of LPG will only move you about 80% of the distance of petrol. Last time I worked this out it looked like LPG would cost 6p a mile compared to 10p a mile on Petrol. Based on this you would probably have to do 25000-30000 miles to break even.

Post by **doobry** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:24 pm

I was guessing based on 30p difference per litre (I thought LPG was about 40p ?) and that the MPG drops by approx 10% (a guess), and roughly 8 litres per 100 km as I can never remember how many litres in a gallon (but forgot to convert back to miles

) but yes - on your numbers it won't take long before you break even.

Personaly on 18 thousand miles a year I'd buy a little Peugeot Diesel or something like that but if you want to do it in a moggy, it's your choice ;-)

Post by **Cam** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:26 pm

I can never remember how many litres in a gallon

4.55

Post by **Chris Morley** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:49 pm

This expensive conversion needs more than rough guesses - you get about 20% less mileage from LPG and you retain the same costs for starting up (which has to be with petrol). The savings aren't so clear cut as they first seem and you have to factor in the loss of boot space and slightly reduced performance. It's no wonder that the Government had to pay conversion grants to kick-start it.

It's generally accepted that the big winners from LPG are large vehicles with big engines & poor mpg ( e.g. Range Rovers, Volvo saloons). The benefits for small cars are marginal.

Post by **Kevin** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:49 pm

4.55

I didnt know that I thought it was 8 pints

apart from the smaller US gallon

Post by **Cam** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:06 pm

Kevin wrote:
4.55
I didnt know that I thought it was 8 pints apart from the smaller US gallon

Yes, or 4 quarts, 1/2 a peck, 160 fluid ounces, etc........... Actually it's 4.546 litres to the Gallon, but 4.55 is good enough!!

Post by **Kevin** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:20 pm

1/2 a peck

That sounds like you have been short changed.

Post by **Cam** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:22 pm

eh? I think I have missed something........ 2 gallons = 1 peck, so 1 gallon = 1/2 a peck.

Post by **Kevin** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:25 pm

eh? I think I have missed something........

Sorry Cam its the language thing again, a peck on the cheek was what I was thing of.

Post by **Cam** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:26 pm

Ah, sorry Kevin, yes....... my fault. Not awake!! Yes, I get you now.

1/2 a peck....... story of my life!!

Post by **Ben** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 3:32 pm

Personaly on 18 thousand miles a year I'd buy a little Peugeot Diesel or something like that but if you want to do it in a moggy, it's your choice

Doing 18000 miles a year is a lot more pleasurable in something with personality rather than sterile to drive. The mileage comes from a lot of travelling to and from surf and on international surf trips. A Traveller with surfboards on top gets you places and makes friends all over Europe - they love it!! Only problem being that the Spanish seem to like risking life and limb to get a photo of us on the move.