removing crank pulley bolt - any ideas?

[Dominic]

Hi All
I've spent a frustrating few hours over the last few days trying, so far without success, to remove the crank pulley bolt on a 1275cc Marina engine. I want to replace it with a starter dog, so I have the option of using the handle if the battery ever fails on me. I've tried so far, after bending back the lock washer:-
1) plenty of penetrating oil
2) club hammer on a 1 5/16" spanner which must be about 18" long at least
3) using the starter to try and shock it into submission - lump of timber across the front to give a spanner and socket with bar something to bear on.
4) as above but allowing about 45 degrees of travel before slamming into the poor block of wood.
5) jamming a screwdriver into the ring gear when starter removed, then repeating no. 2 as above.
Has anyone any further ideas, apart from not bothering with a starting handle?
Cheers, Dom.[frame][/frame]

[PSL184]

The starter and block of wood usually does the trick but the last resort for you would seem to be using an air gun and impact socket.

[bmcecosse]

beware -it's relatively easy to bend the nose of the crank using the club hammer method. As above - the starter idea usually works - and yes - impact wrench seems the only hope. Or just park on a hill.......

[Chris Edgar]

I had this problem getting the nut off my convertible when I had it...
it came off with an electric impact wrench in the end.

[chickenjohn]

Get some heat on the bolt (it may have been held in with loctite and may need heat to break the bond), probably a blow torch will do, use a socket, a 24' breaker bar and piece of scaffolding pole. The leverage should help then!

Or as suggested an impact gun after heat.

[JOWETTJAVELIN]

Strange.... I'd heard of how stubborn these nuts can be but my starter one came off fairly easily, though we had to use a bit of leverage with the crowbar.

[MarkyB]

Starter trick has always worked for me, you need to leave an inch or two clearance so the starter can get some momentum into the engine and thus give the bolt a good whack.

[scotthesniper]

are you sure heat is the thing to use will that not damage the crank oil seal on the front. i would use an air gun on it to be honest and it depends on what air gun you use cheap ones wont even look at it. ingersol rand or snap on will probably do the job good luck. i had a hyundia coupe crank bolt not coming off tried everything even my £375.00 ingersol rand air gun nothing had to nip over the yard and get a shot of a massive 3/4 drive gun from the guy that does the lorries and that took 8 seconds befor it cracked it of. as i said though not sure about the heat part though with the seal being behind the crank

[bmcecosse]

A new seal should always be fitted in any case. That's the least of the worries. The BIG risk here is twisting or bending the crank nose......... Applied heat though will expand the bolt potentially making it even tighter - the idea would be to apply heat and then leave it all to cool again before making a further attempt. And any method that applies high side force (hammer or crowbar) is to be resisted.

[Dominic]

Decided to leave the bolt in situ. With an alternator there's unlikely to be any great danger of regular flat batteries!

[bmcecosse]

Good thinking!

[wavertreeboy]

just a thought if you had a flat battery would the starter handle work anyway

[bmcecosse]

Of course it will - the battery is never completely flat.. And in extremis - a dry battery can be used to power the ignition - and a small amount of petrol poured into the carb to get it started.

[philthehill]

Whilst it is possible to fit the starter dog to a damped pulley it should be remembered that the pulley bolt should be matched to the pulley used.
There are two different damped pulley bolts used - AEA312 (998cc pre 'A' Plus) and TAM2019 (998cc 'A' Plus/1300cc) - the later bolt can be identified by the fact that the bolt has a dimple in the bolt head.
Using a starter dog or the wrong bolt to secure a damped pulley could lead to the starter dog/bolt coming loose and damaging the crankshaft and crankshaft pulley.

Whilst you may not have this special tool (BMC Pt No: 18G98) this is the correct way to remove the crankshaft pulley/starter dog bolt.
Using this tool you do not and should not lock the flywheel.[frame][/frame]

[philthehill]

You can lock the flywheel with this special Sykes Pickavant tool (or similar) and use a spanner on the crankshaft bolt.[frame][/frame][frame][/frame]

[alawrence10360]

Starter trick has always worked for me, you need to leave an inch or two clearance so the starter can get some momentum into the engine and thus give the bolt a good whack.

I’ve been messing about trying to get the bolt out of mine to fit a starter dog and eventually tried the starter method.
It’s brilliant !
Really easy.
However the washer I’ve taken off has a locking tab with nothing to locate to the shaft as far as I can see so bending that over would be of no use unless I’m missing something
There is a slot for a woodruff key but can’t see how that fits in either securing the bolt
ESM shows a crush washer of some kind which would make more sense to me

So is it this
https://mossmotors.com/lock-tab-crankshaft-pulley-1
Or this
https://www.morrisminorspares.com/engin ... er-p830481

[philthehill]

https://www.morrisminorspares.com/engin ... er-p830481

The latest locking washer does not have a tag to fit into the woodruff key slot.
One part of the locking washer is knocked/pressed into the hollow located in the front face of the pulley whilst another part of the locking washer is knocked/pressed against a flat of the starter dog/pulley bolt. The starter dog/bolt will not come undone if the locking washer is secured correctly.
This is the original type of locking washer:-
https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/lock-tab- ... soc=143769
Here is an alternative - again the lock washer is knocked into the hollow of the crankshaft pulley and against a flat of the starter dog/bolt.
https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/lock-tab- ... soc=143914

All are fit for purpose.

I would advise against using a ratchet for the purpose of shocking the starter dog/bolt undone. A ratchet is not designed for impact purposed, there is the possibility that the ratchet breaks and sends parts flying in all directions. At a minimum use a 'T' bar preferably a 3/4" drive one.

[alawrence10360]

Yep
I would agree Phil re the ratchet

[alawrence10360]

https://www.morrisminorspares.com/engin ... er-p830481

“One part of the locking washer is knocked/pressed into the hollow located in the front face of the pulley”

I have ordered the one from ESM
I’m not quite sure what you mean regarding the above Phil
I can’t see a hollow in the pulley in the pic I posted

PS
The Camshaft Washer you posted from Moss makes perfect sense to me btw
Does it also fit the crank pulley Phil ?

[philthehill]

All of the crankshaft pulleys have a hollow (or two) that the locking washer is knocked into to stop it turning. The hollows look like segment(s) from a chocolate orange. Some of the later crankshaft pulleys have one or two slots to knock the locking washer into.
My mistake over the camshaft locking washer having misread the Moss parts catalogue. Though the original locking washer is very similar with the tag that fits into the woodruff key slot.