Power and starting failure

[Tea]

We started having trouble with our car starting a month or so ago when turning the key (ignition light comes on though). The car starts fine with the starting handle, jumping form battery to solenoid and push starts and so we've ruled out the starter motor. At first we had suggestions of earthing problems and so all earthing was checked, cleaned and replaced, but this didn't solve the problem.
Next we checked for life around the solenoid and control panel and there was, except for where the cable from the ignition switch meets the solenoid.
We replaced the solenoid with a secondhand one and gave the key a turn, but nothing. We then changed the ignition switch (again in secondhand condition) and still nothing, only this time not only did the car not start but there's no power at all.
There's life coming down from the battery to the solenoid, but then nothing from the solenoid to the car (control panel or fuse box).

We've changed both ignition switch and solenoid back to the original ones which has made no difference to power coming into the car.

And so, the 2 main questions are:

1) Does anyone have any suggestions on what could be the cause of no life coming out from the solenoid? Possibly buying a brand new one could solve it?
2) Would the mostly likely cause for the initial problem of the car not starting be a broken wire from the ignition switch to the solenoid or possibly the solenoid was already on it's way out and we managed to tip it over the edge messing about with taking it out?

Hopefully this all makes sense...

(P.s. Just to complicate things has anyone got an idea for what the random brown wire is (circled in yellow on the photo) coming from the solenoid to the fuse box is?)[frame][/frame]

[beero]

The extra brown wire is probably a feed for something, maybe cigar lighter? Take it off and see what stops working.
When you turn the key to start is there power going to the white/red on the solenoid? If not check for power on the white/red at the ignition switch.

[Tea]

The only extra bit we seem to have in the car is a small button on the dash which is most likely to flash the front lights. It didn't do anything before we disconnected it, so not sure if it has something to do with that?

There was no life from the white/red at the solenoid. We hadn't checked at the ignition switch though. We shall do once we get some power back in the car

Thanks

[bmcecosse]

Looks like you have the main leads connected to the wrong terminals on the solenoid......swop them over! Brown leads are main power supplies into the car....hardly 'random'.......

[Tea]

Ah, this will be where we've gone wrong! Hahaha, we spent ages looking at it and saying it'll be something simple Will swap them over tomorrow. Thanks for the help on that one Everything I've read and heard of so far say there should only be 2 leads coming off from the solenoid - the white/red to the ignition switch and the brown (non-circled) to the control box. We seem to have an extra one that is doing nothing. Disconnect it and nothing changes or stops working...

[mike.perry]

Does the black plastic button between the terminals do anything? On earlier solenoids this was a starter button, on later solenoids this function was discontinued.
Do you have an alternator or dynamo? I have two thick brown wires and two thin brown wires which use the solenoid as a junction box from the alternator as the control box has been removed.
The thick brown wire is the main supply cable from the battery to the control box. As this wire is on the spade connector attached to the cable from the battery the solenoid will have no effect on it.
Follow the thin brown cable, I suspect that it goes to Term A on the control box, then to the fuse box.
With the ignition on you should have the ignition light on and power to the wipers, brake lights, indicators and heater.
Another check, is the earth cable connected between the gear box and rear cross member?

[Tea]

The black plastic button does nothing as it's a '68 car and so had already been discontinued.
We have a dynamo. Do you think that maybe it had an alternator put on at some point and then switched back leaving that cable there?
With the ignition on we get the ignition light on and power to all those parts. We can drive without any problems after starting with the handle.
That earth cable is connected. We checked, cleaned and reconnected it last week, so it shouldn't be an issue.

[mike.perry]

Mine is a 1968 car and it still has a starter button on the solenoid. Maybe it was discontinued because people forgot to check the car was in neutral before pressing the button and running themselves over.
When you turn the key you should hear a click as the solenoid closes and the starter should turn. If no click disconnect the red/white wire from the solenoid and connect it to a test light, when you turn the key the light should work.
Try touching a wire from the brown terminal to the red/white terminal on the solenoid. If no luck then the solenoid must be knackered.

[bmcecosse]

As above - likely now it's failed key switch......or at least failed wire between keyswitch and solenoid.

[Tea]

Problem solved! We put the new solenoid on and no difference. New ignition switch in and Boris came alive once again, hurrah! Many thanks for the suggestions. We also found out the reason for the second brown wire - it sends the power to the interior light.

[bmcecosse]

It's not supposed to.......except via the fuse box and then into the Lilac wire......to horn and light.