New 16 year old member and new project

[tunnyx]

Hi all - just thought I'd pop on and introduce my son's 1962 (just turned 50) new project - as yet un-named, but he (or she) has been off the road since 2000 and needs a few bits to get it roadworthy. Starts on the button and sounds lovely. We'll keep you updated on progress but Jack (my son) is raring to go.

Any pointers on things to check off and preventative maintenance would be useful for him. We'll be getting him a full membership in a short while so hopefully you'll see more of him and the car pretty soon.

Here's a pic for you all[frame][/frame]

[chrisryder]

Looks great!

Good to see another young person getting into these brilliant cars.

If he's on facebook (what 16 year old isn't...) then point him in the direction of this group:

www.facebook.com/groups/MMOCYM/

It's where all us young folk keep in touch, discuss technical problems, and organise meets.

As for a name... It's always fun to try to make something from the letters. For instance, I know of a minor with a similar reg, with UMM as the letters, and that's called 'ummbug'.

[ignatzcatz]

I think your dog is crapping in your pond.

[tunnyx]

Lol, thank god it's only cooper (the jack russell) and not Alfie (the Cross spaniel/Alsation).... I'd rather not have a brown trout around my Golden Koi!

Just a quick update - the brakes are shot and looks like we need a new master cylinder (I'd rather have a new cylinder than using a kit) - having read a few posts it looks like a pig of a job but we'll be giving it a go as soon as we get a master cylinder.

Before we go and buy one:

a) Does anyone know of any tests we can run that are conclusive as to where the problem lies - the M/C is fully topped up but the brake pedal has no resistance (thus im assuming the seals have gone and the fluids just moving around the M/C and not the pipes).

b) Does anyone have a spare M/C they'd be willing to sell?

Cheers

Mark & jack

[MarkyB]

If you are sure brake fluid isn't hissing out somewhere (including into the chassis under the MC), why not try bleeding the brakes first?

[irmscher]

Lovely car The master cylinder may only need a couple of seals ? have you checked for any leaks near the wheels etc maybe an easy fix

[tunnyx]

Hi all, finally got it in the garage beside my Dutton Melos (a tight squeeze but they're both in). and we've been having a look-see at the brakes, which are completely ineffective. I've initially diagnosed a failed brake master cylinder but as its a fairly arduous job I'd like to know whether I'm right or whether I'm wrong. We've started with the most accessible brakes, the passenger front brake, just to see what's actually happening:

1 - The drum fastening screws are missing. Obviously with the wheel bolted on the drum is fastened tight to the hub but presumably this would cause a little bit of play, but not enough to stop the brakes working completely (which is what we're investigating). I presume that missing these screws wouldn't cause a complete lack of braking? I'll be sourcing some screws but just to confirm that these being missing wouldn't cause our complete lack of braking?

2 - The brake cylinders do move when the brake pedal is pressed, but the piston only comes out by around 5mm. Both shoes do move, but again, only by 3-5mm. Is that normal or would you expect much more movement?

3 - The previous owner has completely filled up the Master Cylinder with fluid, so much so that when pressing the brake pedal, some fluid does come out of the M/C top up cap (through the breather hole). Would this be introducing air and/or causing the poor braking?

4 - Next step is to bleed the brake and see if things improve. As far as I can see the bleed nipple is situated behind the cylinder closest to the bulkhead, behind the backplate - is that correct?

Any thoughts and answers to the above much appreciated.

Mark & jack

[les]

1--Drum fastening screws keep drum secure whilst adjusting shoes, so should be fitted.
2--The actual cylinders of front brakes should not move, the pistons should and would 'pop' out of the cylinders when pedal depressed, if there was no drum to prevent the shoes from expanding. Maybe yours would move more than 5mm if you pumped the pedal, indicating air in the system, other than that, possibly seized.
3--level should be just below cap--- don't think air can get in if overfilled, but suck some out all the same.
4-- 1 bleed nipple on each cylinder, 2 cylinders on each front backplate.

[MarkyB]

At least the cylinders aren't seized as they move, does the pedal go to the floor or harden up when the 5 mm is reached?
Removing the master cylinder isn't as bad as it looks in the book, the torsion bar can be pulled down to facilitate removing the bolts.

[tunnyx]

Thanks for that chaps - couple more things:

1 - Reviewed the piston movement (agreed, its the pistons moving not the cylinders lol). Actually, the nearside piston moves but the farside piston isnt moving (though it was earlier on during the day). One cylinder is new, the other is old and its the old cylinder that is moving fine.

It appears that the new brake pipes route to the first cylinder and then from the first cylinder to the second cylinder. I've attached a pic below showing what I think is the second cylinder's bleed nipple, is this correct?



The cylinders are shown below (the older looking one is moving 5-6mm and moves the shoe 2-4mm, whereas the newer cylinder (the first one in the chain of the brake pipes) isn't moving now.



Pic before piston moved......and after moving



In terms of the master cylinder and brake pedal, the pistons only move when the brake pedal is right to the floor and it really doesnt feel like theres any pressure behind it (i've been pressing it with my hand and its very weak).

Also, we've been searching for rust and the only major rust we've found is round the inner rear arches - see below. Whilst this is going to get sorted anyway, is this likely to be an MOT failure point (as we're going to get it MOT'd before we do any major bodywork bits on it as much as possible).

[MarkyB]

The rust shouldn't be an issue if that's all there is.
Bleed the brakes and see what air comes out.
If you put a G clamp on the moving cylinder I expect the other one will move OK.

If you can't bleed the brakes due to more air getting in the the master cylinder probably needs work/replacing.

[tunnyx]

Righty ho - bit of an update (this is very slow work).

We tried to bleed the front brakes but it turned out the bleed nipple nut has been thoroughly rounded by the previous owner. We then moved to the n/s rear and gave that a go - got a good deal of air out of that one. However, we still had no pressure on the pedal and still no movement whatsoever on the rear caliper after bleeding it (it moves freely though when using the handbrake).

I've therefore assumed that the m/c must be faulty and we've ordered one (and a new bleed nut & also a l/h front cylinder just in case).

Whilst it's a bit late for asking for advice, does this all seem sensible?

Cheers

Mark & Jack

[DAVIDMCCULLOUGH]

Re the back cylinder - there is another piston inside the cylinder which may be seized up. This is above the bit you can see that works the handbrake. Back cylinders are very prone to seizing up as the outer body is ali and the piston is steel. I would suggest ordering 2 new ones, the pattern ones are fine on the rear.

[sudburypaul]

Nice little car.

I bought a 1956 series 2 for my 18 yr old daughter last year, which she now uses on her own since passing her test and loves to bits. It needed a bit of work for its mot, including brakes, as had been off the road for about 8 years. I decided on safety grounds not to mess around and replaced the whole system, M/C, slave cylinders and shoes, even though most still worked okay. It's been worth the extra expense and I rest a bit easier at night knowing it'll stop well and reliably. Whether it will go well and reliably is another matter, but as yet no late night calls for assistance...

Paul