Sill fitting

[jimyboyle]

1970 2 door.
Both sides boxing plates and outer sills are completely rotted away so i have no reference to work with. I have fitted the boxing plate with self tappers to see how it looks but when I position the outer sill in the place I think is correct, flush with the outside of the A and B post, there is a gap of about 10 mm between it and the boxing plate at the centre of the door.

Does not look right, anyone have a comment for me?

[jimyboyle]

Not having much success uploading a photo so here is a link

http://s1063.photobucket.com/albums/t512/jimyboyle/

[chickenjohn]

Jim, that doesn't look too far out. Having done a few sills myself, bits often look like this due to the repro panels being slightly different to the originals.

The key here is to clamp/ self tapper/ PK it all together as best you can, then re-fit the doors and sill kick plates and sill finisher channel. If the doors shut with a reasonable gap and the bottom of the door has a reasonable gap to the sill finisher and bottom lip of the door is flush with the outer face of the sill finisher then the sill outer panel is in the right place.

Don't attempt to weld it all on without checking the fit with doors and sill finisher and kick plates trial fitted on. and the wings as well, if you can!

[jimyboyle]

Thanks John,
assuming it is in the correct position do I need to then weld a plate across the top to close the gap and seal it from water ingress?

Jim

[chickenjohn]

No Jim, the boxing panel should be plug welded to the vertical lip of the inner sill step. And no need for a plate at the top as the sill kick steps cover the top.

Your pics look a bit odd, can you post some bigger pics from different angles, hard to see what is going on but the top of the boxing panel should a that point be self tappered to the vertical flange of the inner sill step.

[chickenjohn]

Jim, have a look at my 4-door build thread, this is a pic of the sill being fitted up

rest of thread:- http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f= ... =Madelaine

cheers

John

[kennatt]

dosent look like you have fitted up the inner undersill,that may push out the boxing section onto the outer sill. But could be just the very poor quality of replacement bits these days.

[jimyboyle]

Thanks for the photo John, yours looks like mine, touches at the front and back with a wide gap in the middle, sort of makes the horizontal flange at the bottom of the boxing plate redundant as there is nothing to attach it to. This horizontal flange make you think it has to be welded to the outer sill.

The panels are Hadrian, I was just thinking even with the covers in place opening the door in heavry rain must get water running down the posts and into the sills.

Jim

[jimyboyle]

some more photos

http://s1063.photobucket.com/albums/t512/jimyboyle/

[chickenjohn]

Jim, don't worry what it looks like inside the sill, as said above modern pattern panels are not exact. Bolt on the doors shut the doors and screw on the the sill kick plates and finisher channel to make sure the outer face of the sill finisher is flush with the door bottom lip in the verticle and there is an even gap in the horizontal.

Then the outer sill panel is in the right place and can be welded on. You may need to plug weld the flange to the inner floor edge sill panel in places.

[DAVIDMCCULLOUGH]

I think you missing the floor edge (inner sill) in those photos, its what the boxing plate is welded to giving a good strong channel, the outer sill really only fills the gap and is something to bolt the finisher onto.

http://morrisminorspares.co.uk/shop/adv ... cf&x=0&y=0

[kennatt]

[quote]think you missing the floor edge (inner sill) in those photos, [quote) just what I asked earlier

[chickenjohn]

Another thing to do to modern sill panels is to dress the flange where the outer and inner meet so the outer sill panel meets the inner sill/floor edge panel all the way along and you can then plug weld the two together where they meet. With the sill finsiher, doors and kick plates all lined up, I'm sure you will find that the bottom flange of the boxing panel meets suitable metal to plug weld to.

[jimyboyle]

I will get these parts ordered and see how it goes
thanks
Jim

[chickenjohn]

If you're missing panels in that area then definitely do not weld anything till you've lined it all up and made sure it all fits!

Apologies if I'm sounding like a broken record, but this is the solution to how to fit the sill panels correctly,- attention to panel (especially door) gaps rather than worrying about what it looks like inside the sill where no-one will ever see with the covers on.

[jimyboyle]

Hi John, you can sound like a broken record all you want, I have done many bikes but this is my first car so will listen to all offers of advice.
Measuring from bits underneath the car to what is left of the RH sill and comparing it to where I have the LH one clamped in place would suggest it is about right. I cannot hang the door because of the state of the A post but I stuck it in place and with the finisher and out side channel held on, it also looks OK.
I will get the under sills and clamp everything up before doing any kind of welding.

The sills were in a dreadfull state with patches and 45 degree supports to stop them collapsing, almost nothing left of the boxing panels so not much to use as a reference, inner sills and floor pretty rough so also getting replaced.

Outside panels, boot bonnet wings etc all quite acceptable so that is good.
I am not in any rush, doing more because I want to rather than because I need the car so advice likes yours is really helpful

Jim

[chickenjohn]

In which case you do need to get new A pillars in place, or repair the ones you have (such as fitting a lower section if that is all that is rusty, and get the doors on as this is the vital guide to ensure the sills are in the right place. Repair the inner wing first then fit A pillar (minus cover panel) to door and close door in the hole , then tack the A pillars to inner wing and MAKE SURE the doors shut and open on the latches, and with the door rubbers in place. You also need good hinges to do this.

A few fractions of an inch out with the sills and A pillar and the doors may not shut properly or the gaps will be all wrong!

My record is still broken and jumping!

[kennatt]

if you mean the actual inner sill that you are replacing and not just the inner undersill,be very careful that you have supported the frame because once the true inner sill is cut off the whole car frame will move ie the door gap will either close up or open out depending where the car is jacked up or sitting on its wheels. Most weld a brace across the door gap, a to b post and b to c in a four door before cutting the innersill to hold the gap as it should be. Many a rebuild has to ruined because once the sills have been welded and you find the gap is way out,there little you can do about it,start again or bodge up. So be careful with it good luck

[chickenjohn]

Good advice from Kennatt.
If the inner sill step also need replacing (the bit of the sill the carpet glues to on the inside then the car definitely needs bracing, at least across A B and C pillars and perhaps even across the width of the car as well. Use angle iron or 2mm box section, with big tack welds you can easily cut through later without leaving damage to the car. I did this to my convertible as one inner sill was beyond saving and am doing this to my 4-door as well.

The "other" part sometimes referred to as "inner sill" is actually the floor edge sill panel, that joins the floor to outer sill panel. That part is missing in your photos.

This is the front floor edge sill panel that people sometime call the "inner sill"



This is the proper inner sill step panel.



that the seatbelt bolts to.

[jimyboyle]

The floor and all the inner panels need replacing as they are all patches so bit by bit they have to go. The A post is first on the list and I have tacked 2" angle across each door gap about 4" above the top of the boxing panel and then tacked another piece of angle across the car to the ones across the door gap. Reading all the posts on the forum had made it quite clear it was necessary and this was the first thing I did.
The bottom of the A post has been patched so I bought the repair panel to fix it. I think getting the A post solid is going to be the most challenging thing for me, the 'inner wing' panel that goes from the post past the kidney bowl has completely gone and it took me ages to establish that there should have been metal there, all that is left is about 1/4" of ragged metal attached the the inside of the post.
The inner wing back of post repair panel I bought will need some work to make it fit so I am still deciding whether of not to use it or just make something myself.

I will tackle it again after Easter
thanks for all the advice

Jim