Points problem

[Guy Gilding]

Dear All,
My first post on the site hoping someone can help me.

I have a 1961 948cc Minor that is causing me sleepless nights. Last year she was becoming very hard to start and would randomly break down. The first problem was the fuel pump which was replaced making the situation better. Problems started again so this time we replaced the ignition coil, (old screw in type replaced with push in variety), and therefore the distributor cap, leads, points, condensor, plugs. This made things better but she would still be a bit juddery at low speed. So, we serviced the carburettor. This made things a lot better. Now the problem is that the points randomly close up. This weekend I took her for two trips, one for an hour, no problem the next got 8 miles and she cut out. Fortunately I broke down outside a petrol head's house and he eagerly came out took the points off, gave them a quick polish and off we went.

The reason for my sleepless nights is that we hire the car out for weddings and the thought of breaking down in the middle of nowhere with a bride in the back already late for the church is terrifying! Can anyone shed any light on what may go going wrong with the points or could it be something else affecting the points?

Thank you.

[autolycus]

Usually, when points close up it's because the heel of the points (the bit that rubs on the cam on the distributor shaft) is wearing too rapidly. You may not notice anything until it's worn away so much that the points no longer open as the shaft rotates, or open only a tiny amount on one or two lobes of the cam due to variations in its profile.

There are two common causes: the poor quality of the plastic used on many modern sets of points; and lack of lubrication. Some distributors have a felt pad which rubs on the cam, and this needs a few drops of oil periodically, while others benefit from a tiny smear of grease on the cam. Very occasionally, the cam faces may be rough due to corrosion or damage, which will soon chew through plastic points.

I must say that I wouldn't do weddings if I couldn't deal with things like points problems at the roadside.

Kevin

[mike.perry]

I agree with Kevin, it is a quality issue with the points. Earlier points had a fibre heal which did not wear as rapidly as the modern plastic heal. My suggestion is that you include a points check in your pre wedding service the afternoon before and make sure that the clamp screws are tight

[dalebrignall]

fit electronic ignition gets rid of all those worries

[tomas.geoghegan]

I disegree With Fitting electric ignition being trouble free driveing. as they do sometimes break down then its a trailer home
at least with points you can fit a new set and be on your way!
And i find points very reliable as always were . Keep it standard, I Think!
Tom

[Guy Gilding]

Many thanks for the advice.

The points I fitted originally failed almost immediately, the replacement ones fairly soon after. I guess maybe it was a bad batch, I've just ordered a couple of Lucas points from a different supplier which will hopefully sort it out.

I'm glad the option of electronic ignition has come up because I did consider it, although having to change the earth to negative seems like more trouble than it's worth. Any other members have an opinion?

Rest assured Mike I will be taking your advice! Brides (and their father's) can be a trifle wired, they deliberately make themselves late and then get stressed by red traffic lights. The thought of spending even five minutes under the hood is not a happy one!

[tomas.geoghegan]

I agree Nail on the head.
Fit Lucas Points.
Happy Days
Tom

[Dean]

Check to make sure the fixing screw thread that holds the points in place isn't stripped. I had a stripped screw holding my points in place... and guess what, they closed up. One new screw later and points are great... (watch the damn things close up on me now!)

[beero]

Welcome to the forum. As said before, get someone to show you how to check/adjust the points the day before the wedding.

[autolycus]

I make it a rule never to do any work on the wedding car for several days before a wedding, unless something urgent crops up. Too likely to drop something, or break something, or think "I could just...".

So it's cleaning and polishing ONLY for the last few days.

I've only once come across a non-biting clamp screw, and that was very obvious as soon as I first set the points. I wish I shared the faith of others in modern Lucas stuff: it's not Joe and his lads any more - they just stick the Lucas badge on imported stuff. With coils, you can just buy the labels on ebay and stick them on any rubbish.

Kevin

[bmcecosse]

The 'Lucas' parts these days are no guarantee of quality unfortunately.... I'm also against the 'electronic' ignition - but in your case it may be the way to go. Accuspark and Simonbbc both sell complete new dizzy already fitted with electronic ignition. Go for a 45D. It's not a big job to change the polarity! And - we all know it's 'never' the coil......

[Sandun]

You have to check - Have your ignition plugs correct order ? - not want to use 'electronic' ignition -

[Guy Gilding]

Yes, checked sequence and it is correct. I think I agree with Tom, keeping a set of points in the boot is an easy way to get home if they fail. Hopefully new points will arrive today and we can see if they solve the problem. Just seems so odd that I've had years of no problems at all (new points every service) and then all of a sudden, continuous issues.

[tomas.geoghegan]

Hi I was traveling in my mog and suddenly the engine cut out. managed to get it going to some how get it home after alot of starting and stopping. checked everything. I changed the ignition coil and absolutely no more problems.
Proofs in the pudding i think! so as well always carry a spare coil as well.
Tom

[dalebrignall]

ive had my electronic ignition for 7 years done 35000 miles with not a splutter and starts first time every time ,i know it will upset the purists but ive found it very reliable cant say any more .

[JOWETTJAVELIN]

(new points every service)

You don't need new points every service unless you do mega miles. Just rub the faces clean with a nail file. Only replace them if they are too pitted or worn right down to the nub.

Same goes for the condensor: if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Obviously keep a few spares on the car; they hardly take up much space and could make the difference between a 10 min delay and an hour.

Try Unipart for quality parts.

[bmcecosse]

Tomas - put the old coil back on (after checking the connections) and see if it works now......... Obviously, when I say it's 'never' the coil - just very very occasionally it can be the coil - but generally this is because of physical damage and/or oil leaking out. And when the coil fails - it's a sudden and complete failure.......

[lambrettalad]

I can believe I've seem bcm agree with electronic ignition

For 50 quid it's the way to go and you could always have a points dizzy set up in the boot ,which i do (or even another electronic kit) better belts and braces for weddings

[JOWETTJAVELIN]

Don't know what the craze over elec ignition is about - our cars have worked just swell for over 40 years on points and then someone decides it's a good idea to put accuspark in.

As with everything on the Minor - maintain it well and it'll never break down.

[bmcecosse]

I agree - my Minor is on points -and they are many many years old - good original genuine 'Lucas' ones. My TR7 came with electronic ignition - it works perfectly, and I have no intention of changing it. However - I have taken the precaution of buying a complete spare points dizzy from ebay - and this goes everywhere with the car.