Cost of a new Moggie if made today?

[chickenjohn]

I wonder how labour-intensive the Minor would be to build, compared to modern cars? Obviously the Minor is very simple, but if it were very labour-intensive to put together then that'd wipe out any cost saving. Land Rover had this problem with the Defender in the 90s, when according to some accounts they lost money on every one sold, as despite being an incredibly simple vehicle, it was practically hand-built. Then there's also the question of whether many people would buy one - beyond a relatively small band of us enthusiasts, most people would probably just see it as a slow, noisy, rust-prone and not very safe car, and would therefore rather buy something else. This limited production would probably then see the price escalate, further reducing the appeal.

Even if it were possible to produce all of the necessary parts, there'd be the obvious problem of all the mountains of EU regulations - occupant safety, pedestrian safety, 'safety assist' technologies, and emissions.

Personally I'd like to see new Minor bodyshells available to enable the reshelling of comprehensively rotten cars, but I think any attempt to resurrect the Minor in anything like its original form would be totally unviable.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that if the Traveller was made nowadays, due to the level of manual work involved in making the wood and assembling, gluing varnishing, etc that it would have to be sold at something like £30,000 as the labour involved is somewhat "Morgan" like!

I disagree that we need new body shells, we need better panel and parts quality and availability!

[kennatt]

[quote]I disagree that we need new body shells[quote] not sure about this ,MGB heritage used to supply a new shell(Not sure about now) and it worked out better without the labour involved, than rebuilding a rotton one plus everything was in line and if treated properly would last for years without further work. Mind toomany moggie models I supose.But just think if you could get just the mm shell all new in primer mmmmmmm.

[autolycus]

That must be the biggest load of utter nonsense I have ever read on here.

It will be interesting to read the more detailed rebuttal of all, or even most, of the points that I made that qualified my post for this executive summary of SM's views. I thought that Mike Perry, chrisd87, and MarkyB, all honourable men, each agreed with at least a small part of what I'd written.

2-5-5

Kevin

[faversham999]

The basic design was good to bring it up to todays standards it would have to be changed, only the sprit of the car would be left Like the Fiat 500, new Beetle & BMW Mini they look similar but have todays safety standards . The Morris was cutting edge once so there could be a market but which car company would take it on. Mabe Tata of India

[aupickup]

a new body shell would be good in my veiw

[MarkyB]

That must be the biggest load of utter nonsense I have ever read on here.

This is little better than abuse, I too would like to see a more detailed rebuttal of the points autolycus made, add something useful to this thread or keep quiet.

[Neil MG]

That must be the biggest load of utter nonsense I have ever read on here.

This is little better than abuse, I too would like to see a more detailed rebuttal of the points autolycus made, add something useful to this thread or keep quiet.

Well put! I think so too. I would entirely agree with every word that Kevin (autolycus) wrote, being a lot more fact than opinion.

[chickenjohn]

There seems to be an un-needed argument brewing here. I don't think Staffsmoggie was personally attacking Kevin, by the "what a load of nonsense" comment.
I read that as a criticism of the modern EU rules and regs, in which case Staffs and Kevin are right.

Would disagree on the "Masochism" comment though from Kevin. Having driven a Minor on and off as a daily driver for many years I find them comfortable, characterful, cheap to run and reliable motoring friends. It is a case of false perception by the motoring public that keeps them in their dull Euroboxes.

[StaffsMoggie]

That must be the biggest load of utter nonsense I have ever read on here.

This is little better than abuse, I too would like to see a more detailed rebuttal of the points autolycus made, add something useful to this thread or keep quiet.

I did offer something useful to the thread.

I use my Minor every day, whatever the weather or conditions. My Morris is my everyday driver now. How many on this forum can say that? What I said was certainly not abuse.

[JOWETTJAVELIN]

The question is not cost (as some have said it would be like the new Beetle or Fiat 500 and fairly costly - never a mass market car as they originally were). A new Minor would be a completely different car and a travesty and insult to the original and those who made it. []
It would undoubtedly be a much larger car.
You would not be able to tinker with it and fix it with putty.
The handling characteristics would bear no resemblance to the original.
It would be full of plastic instead of steel.
The legal and safety requirements for modern cars are extensive.

[]

Morris died with the Ital and should be left to rest, along with Austin, Hillman, Standard etc.

My daily driver is an original splitscreen Series II (1956). When I say original I mean it - no seatbelts and using hand signals. I do about 6,000 miles a year. If I wanted a modern car I would have one. I enjoy the nostalgia and see my car as a workhorse but treat it with respect. No silly names for it, out in all weathers and used and flogged and abused. The car is happy because this is what it was meant to do. I keep it oiled, rustproofed and in top order... which is more than some 'enthusiasts' do just running it in and out of the garage.

[moggiethouable]

This post did set me thinking not so much about the possible cost but what a 21st century Minor would have to look like to meet legislation and the expectations of todays discerning driver.
The recently re-released Mini holds most of the cues here I think.
So, it would have to be more compact inside or bigger outside, to accomodate all the air bags, side, front and passenger,then all the clocks needed on the dash,rev counter, temp,oil pressure,time,lots of flashing lights, then theres the air conditioning unit to fit, compartments for cd's, cd player (6 rack of course) arm rests, little pockets for change, sweeties,tissues.
The outside would need TUV approved plastic bumper bars, side bumper strips,fog lamp, reversing lamp,crumple zones, those chrome badges deemed downright dangerous would have to go too.
The engine would need a cat converter, multi point fuel injection,turbo charger, high lift overhead cam, and diesel variants of the same of course.
Like the latest Mini, in my minds eye the new Minor started looking like it went to the gym, but now in its latest reincarnation looks positively steroidal.
Now I know how how bad Mini fanatics feel
Lets hope no one ever thinks about re-releasing a Morris minor.

[chickenjohn]

The question is not cost (as some have said it would be like the new Beetle or Fiat 500 and fairly costly - never a mass market car as they originally were). A new Minor would be a completely different car and a travesty and insult to the original and those who made it.
It would undoubtedly be a much larger car.
You would not be able to tinker with it and fix it with putty.
The handling characteristics would bear no resemblance to the original.
It would be full of plastic instead of steel.
The legal and safety requirements for modern cars are extensive.



Morris died with the Ital and should be left to rest, along with Austin, Hillman, Standard etc.

My daily driver is an original splitscreen Series II (1956). When I say original I mean it - no seatbelts and using hand signals. I do about 6,000 miles a year. If I wanted a modern car I would have one. I enjoy the nostalgia and see my car as a workhorse but treat it with respect. No silly names for it, out in all weathers and used and flogged and abused. The car is happy because this is what it was meant to do. I keep it oiled, rustproofed and in top order... which is more than some 'enthusiasts' do just running it in and out of the garage.

Well said!! I agree with every word...

[rayofleamington]

Regulations for type approval are so strict, on so many counts, that modern car design is very highly constrained. How would you meet all the crashworthiness requirements? Where would you absorb all the collision energy? Picture a Minor steering wheel with an airbag. What about all those pointy bits that spear pedestrians and passengers alike? Or single circuit brakes? Or unprotected wiring and fuel system? Then there are emissions. If you could get emissions anywhere remotely close to modern requirements with an SU carb, and a Lucas distributor (with or without electronic bits), we'd all be getting 70 or 80 mpg from our A-series engines.

I wonder what the road tax on a Minor would be if they taxed them on emissions, like modern cars?

As far as I can guess, g/CO2 band would be 161-170 - the car is relatively fuel efficient compared to many classics.

Emmissions - not an issue as they ran fuel injection and Cat's on A-series engines before they were consigned to history, however start up emmissions (Nox etc..) would take a bit more work as the rules continue to get stricter.

Hmm - trying to avoid an emmissions tax rant, as household energy on its own creates double the CO2 than transport in this country.. in fact cars account for less than 20% of carbon emmissions here, but generate the majority of 'carbon based tax'


ahem..

The car would be nice for us Minor enthusiasts, but useless to the majority of drivers who can't handle rear wheel drive on a well balanced car, let alone an optimistically balanced one.

Crumple zones on a minor were streets ahead of the average - competetive right up to the 90's.
In fact it wasn't until the manufacturer's wanted to reach/beat NCAP2 that the Minor structural layout was dropped in favour of detachable (submarining) front subframe that reduced footwell intrusion.

A modern Minor would unfortunately be double the original weight, chocked full of plastic and computers and certainly better on fuel. Cost would have to be up with the price of a BMW Mini to make it viable.. which is in fact about the size of a Minor but with far less interior space.

For modern Retro - PT cruiser, debadged, with a 2 tone paint job is probably as far as it needs to go. Even those thinggs are becoming antiques now!!

[jagnut66]

Mike has hit the nail on the head: the EU simply wouldn't allow anything like the Minor to get near a road.

Regulations for type approval are so strict, on so many counts, that modern car design is very highly constrained. How would you meet all the crashworthiness requirements? Where would you absorb all the collision energy? Picture a Minor steering wheel with an airbag. What about all those pointy bits that spear pedestrians and passengers alike? Or single circuit brakes? Or unprotected wiring and fuel system? Then there are emissions. If you could get emissions anywhere remotely close to modern requirements with an SU carb, and a Lucas distributor (with or without electronic bits), we'd all be getting 70 or 80 mpg from our A-series engines.

I wonder what the road tax on a Minor would be if they taxed them on emissions, like modern cars?

The Minor design was great in its day, and they're still fine as special occasion cars*, but Joe Public, or Joe plc's Fleet Manager, isn't going to want an unsafe, rust-prone car, with neither bells nor whistles, that costs £1000 more in fuel every year than a little eurobox with better performance. Even if the EU let him.

* or daily driver for a tiny masochistic minority of enthusiasts.

Kevin

Mine's a daily driver Kevin and I would rather drive a classic than any boring modern! That may put me in a minority but I don't feel in the slightest bit 'masochistic'.
I'm simply an enthusiast!
Mike.

[mike.perry]

The Minor already has crumple zones, or is that crumpled zones, witness the dented wings