Advice needed on vibrating clutch.

[bmcecosse]

^^^^^ Exactly - the question is - how did this happen? During manufacture (highly unlikely I suspect unless made in China??) or during installation?

[kennatt]

[quote] This issue with the mechanics is not that they don't keep trying, it's that they let the car out of the shop in the condition you showed on your video. Even a test drive around the block would have revealed that problem. A mechanic should always put a car through it's paces before releasing it -- no matter what's been done.[quote] Exactly what I said,it should never have been given back after the first instalation,they obviously didnt check it with a test drive.. Its like saying OK I have fixed your non starter,oh by the way I havent tried to start it yet, just give me the money and try yourself ,thanks for your custom please call again.NOT VERY LIKELY for me anyway'

[Matlock1000]

Well on Friday we had the engine out again!!!

On taking it out it was obvious to see the miss alignment in the pressure plate.
We took the clutch off the fly wheel and from the picture below you can see the problem.

[frame][/frame]

We then had a closer look at the clutch. We turned it over (pressure plate to the floor) and then pressed down on it. This revealed that one of the 3 release levers was locked solid!!!
The video at the link below is not great at showing this but trust me one of the levers was completely solid.

http://youtu.be/W8R9ljbVMG4

To check the set up we then bolted the original clutch (The clutch that came with the car when I bought it a year ago) on to the flywheel and dropped the engine back in.

We then turned the engine over by hand to see if the alignment was a problem.
(The return spring on the clutch pedal was not re-fitted so the bearing is touching the pressure plate in this video)

http://youtu.be/zWj_yXv9JW0


I then compared the 3rd clutch we had just taken out against the 4th new clutch that had be sent from the supplier. Pressing down on the 4th clutch showed smooth movement on all 3 release levers but I also noticed that the clutch had been greased where as the 3rd clutch had not. See photos below, Notice the red grease on the 4th clutch but not on the 3rd:

3rd Clutch - no grease
[frame][/frame]

4th clutch - notice the red grease at the release lever slides on the back of the pressure plate and also the pivot pins.
[frame][/frame]

However saying this I don’t believe the lack of grease to be the cause of the problem as 2 out of the 3 levers moved fine but the third didn’t. I just find it strange that you can get two Borg and Beck clutches one supplied greased and the other dry!!

So to round up that’s 3 clutches, 2 pattern and one Borg & Beck all of which caused the same vibration. The supplier agreed the first pattern was faulty, the second one they don’t remember checking and I have now found problems with the Borg and beck one……I hope that’s all my bad luck finished with for the year!!!

I’m now wondering if it’s worth actually fitting the 4th clutch or just sticking with original one. There was nothing wrong with the original, it was just a case of whilst the engine is out (the first time) it would probably be a good idea to change it…………………. If only I knew then what I know now…….

[bmcecosse]

Stick with the good original - it's VERY rarely necessary to change the pressure assembly. New plate + graphite bearing and it will be fine. And do take the chance to check the bearing in the tail of the crank!!

[mike.perry]

I agree, as I said earlier, unless damaged or worn I never change the pressure plate, only the drive plate and thrust bearing. Why throw away a perfectly good component and waste money on unnecessary replacements?

[bmcecosse]

The little springs on that 'stuck' lever on #3 clutch are off to the side - I still suspect it has been 'smashed' out of place during installation. Reposition the springs and see if it moves then - I can't see the grease making all that much difference.

[melanddoug]

I have similar probelms on my traveller - I replaced the clutch (borg & beck) a while ago and it's had vibration ever since, but quite mild. I've removed the engine now for some maintenance and found that the pressure plate is similarly misaligned. I haveven't got to the satge of diagnosing why yet. I did the clutch change myself so I'm thinking I probabyl knocked the clutch out of alignment while re-assembling (my lack of experience).

I just wanted to say thanks for all the info in this thread, and to Matlock1000 : I feel your pain! Here's hoping it works out well after such a saga.

[robedney]

You've gotten good advice. Put your original pressure plate back in -- I wouldn't hesitate for a second to do that.

[Matlock1000]

First I must apologise for not replying sooner.

Since my last post-

I have left the original clutch in the car and it is working fine.
I have sent the forth clutch (which I never fitted) back to the supplier and received a full refund.
I also sent them the bill from my local garage for the work they had done and the clutch supplier agreed to pay it!!
(I believe the supplier may have had a batch of bad clutches which they promise me they have now sorted out. Shame they didn’t check this before sending me 3 bad ones!! But I guess someone had to find the problem for them)

Anyway all is good now

[robedney]

Goodness, what a journey! Glad to here it's sorted!

[bmcecosse]

Well done - I would love to know the supplier - and yes, you are not allowed to mention it here. Could you drop me a PM with that info please??

[kennatt]

I believe the supplier may have had a batch of bad clutches which they promise me they have now sorted out. Shame they didn’t check this before sending me 3 bad ones!! But I guess someone had to find the problem for them[/quote] Just as I suspected back in jan

[T100SS]

oops can't work software, see next post with edited text

[T100SS]

Thank you muchly, the advice and videos here have obviated my next steps. Somebody sould bring out 'The Book of You Should Haves' for the Moggy, as indeed there's no substitute for experience. I had a noisy gearbox and tried adjusting the clutch up to alleviate the graunching etc. This caused some heinous noise and little relief so it was decided that another gearbox and seemingly another clutch were needed - whilst it's apart, might as well 'do good work'.

The engine was asthmatic too but at least the advice to rebuild rather than replace was good in that department. £380 quid for big ends, rings, honing, leadhead etc). On went a new clutch - in its entirety - and in went an alleged recon box. The recon bit refers to at least one person being sold a box of scrap. Someone had bought it from Beaulah Jumble from a dealer whose name escaped them. Their project was too rusty so they sold off all the bits. One of these geezers is frighttfully dodgy and I lost the ebay seller's details - don't ask how that's possible. Otherwise I'd have tried to sort something out.

Any road up, the poor car was trying to shake itself to pieces and the 'new' gearbox sounded like it would explode. It jumped out of gear and made driving a misery. I had believed the clutch to be the cause of the vibes but a mechanic who helped me fit yet another gearbox (thirty quid off ebay - am I right in t' 'ead?) said the clutch looked OK. It was in situ so he couldn't actuate the springs as you tried to.

Meanwhile, two of the cross member captive nuts (nearside) had come adrift last time I did the box. This time the pair beneath the master (or 'nasty') cylinder went. Thankfully the car was on a slope and slight lean preventing fliud leakage and we still have brakes. We also still have a bloody horrendous clutch shake.

My facilites (see 'drive') do not enjoy the luxuries of the folk who helpfully posted videos on this matter but I know I have anothe gravel massage due. Thankfullyish, I have an old bike jacket made from 'ballistic' - no seriously, it means you skid along the road rather than snagging. Plus I have a sheet of some polywollysomething plastic that also skids - voila, crude rolling mechanic's thingy.

I shall first examine the old clutch, which had seemingly been OK, and see if all the springs work etc. Then the box will be dropped out and the 'new' clutch examined. I don't where I might stand sending it back (I think I got it from a reputable dealer) but at least I have a plan and good idea of what lies at the root of the shaking. Some had suggested layshaft as the box was so fatigued but (I don't know how) I knew the problem centred on the flywheel. Hopefully I can cherry pick the best parts.

One last nuisance value thing. The new cable steady is too long. Haven't had chance to compare with old one or box mounts but it's odd. Hopefully have it done for next Sunday and pop over to Wortley, but I don't want to drive it another inch with that ruddy clutch. Ah, another bank holiday dream fades to a close...

[MarkyB]

While you are under there, given the history, I'd make sure the flywheel is running true.
Even a tiny bit of muck between it and the crankshaft could be enough to give vibration and problems.
The spigot bush that the gearbox shaft goes into needs to be present and in good nick too.

[T100SS]

While you are under there, given the history, I'd make sure the flywheel is running true.
Even a tiny bit of muck between it and the crankshaft could be enough to give vibration and problems.
The spigot bush that the gearbox shaft goes into needs to be present and in good nick too.

Thanks to MarkyB for the addditional pointer. The flywheel is squeaky (sic) clean thankfully. The old clutch is still good. When bearing surfaces were compared to new equipment there was no discernible difference.

The springs on the housing looked even but not lubricated. I put a smidge of copperease on the spindles. I then laid it on the garage concrete floor and stood on it, transferring weight over each spring. They all worked. Once the box was out, it was obvious even from under the car that the new clutch was out of kilter (how did that saying come about? Is there some eccentric thing about Scot's garb being skewif - indeed, how did skewif come about...?). I hunted around for something to use as a guide as using the old gearbox shaft meant I had to completely strip one of the old boxes. Speaking thusly of boxes an old box spanner fitted nicely.

Circumstances like rain and girl's night out meant I had to wait for Ali's help lifting the box back in. Saturday's fourth attempt got it bolted up sweetly and the car was back together by 17.00. We started about 10.00 - and i had to re-do and put right some of the 'help' I'd previously had. Cross-threaded speedo cable, studs loose and missing from engine to box mounts and nairy a lock washer in sight (nairy - that's another one). To answer my own question, I just have to nip outside and adjust the clutch pedal and we'll be along to Wortley today. No, I'm not bloody washing it and it can stay smeared where Ali missed with the metal polish...

I suppose the underlying advice (if you've been foolish enough to acquire a Morris in the first place) is to not replace owt until you've had it in your hands and seen for your self that it is past use. Once you've ascertained beyond reasonable doubt that it cannot be hammered back into service, try to suss out the vendor before you buy the part - even if they are 'trade'. And if someone offers to help/work cheaply make sure they know how to work on Morris - not just classic/old cars. Such advice may seem to impede progress, but not so much as bad work or parts does. Notwithstanding other influences, it has taken six weeks and enough swearing to actually smell my soul singeing to get it running - tuning will come next. However, there is a sublime sweetness in selecting a gear - synchromesh or otherwise - with no resistance on the lever, no noise from the box - and a clutch that spins like a gyro. Sigh. I love old machinery (as Ali often says to me....)

[bmcecosse]

Well done and a good write up..... So a £30 'box from ebay is fine for you ?? Open up the other one - what's wrong with it??