Heater Fan - direction

Post by **salty_monk** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 2:22 pm

Now it's starting to get colder I've been bullied into sorting out the heater.

Willie & myself thought it might be running backwards due to the fact that it doesn't seem to have much "push".

When I pull off the 3" (or is it 4"..

) feed pipe & switch it on I can see that the blades or roller is turning anticlockwise.

Can someone who knows theirs is running the right polarity (or someone that definitely knows they are running the wrong polarity for that matter!!) have a look for me & tell me which way theirs rotates.
It's quite easy to see if you duck your head under the steering wheel..

Also there are 3 wires..., 2 white & 1 green & yellow.

The green yellow appears from under dash somewhere & then (see below)

Both whites seem to originate at the motor & then (see below)

1 white & green/yellow go through a bung in the side in the direction of the switch, the other white one goes up under the dash somewhere...

Presume that to reverse the polarity I need to reverse the 2 white ones??
Otherwise I'll turn the battery around (currently positive earth but have a sneaky suspicion it has been changed to neg (with heater wires reversed) but then last owner converted it back!! (He also recommended Plys' as a better drive & the car had 2 155 radials on one side of the car with 2 145's radials on the other side when I bought it!!)

Cheers

Post by **Kevin** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 2:35 pm

Yes just reverse the 2 wires at the motor, if no one else does it I will have a look tonight to let you know which way mine is turning (original positive earth)

Post by **salty_monk** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 7:51 pm

Thanks Kevin!

Post by **Willie** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 8:04 pm

SALTY...as you know, my heater air output was at least double
that of yours. I have just tried to feel the direction of rotation and
IT IS NOT possible to see the fan as there is a tubular plastic sleeve
INSIDE the heater,( I can't even feel the fan blades)! Surely the
easiest way is the swop over the two lucar type connectors which
are clearly visible entering the motor on the left hand side of the
heater. Hurry up, it'll be frosty soon! If you want more heat
then do not reconnect the air intake pipe,leave the heater intake'open'
and stuff a rag down the convoluted pipe to stop cold air entering
the car.

Post by **salty_monk** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:18 pm

Thanks for trying Willie... it's strange as we you can clearly see the blades in ours as soon as you remove the large pipe & I can easily get my hand in there to feel what they are doing....
Just thought if it was as easy for everyone else then it would be an easy way to prove our theory.. perhaps I have something missing??

Had another go at the oil seal today, the previous one was ripped to shreds! Don't really understand it but fingers crossed for this time!!

Post by **rayofleamington** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 8:38 am

the previous one was ripped to shreds!

did you lubricate it? Oil seals have a tendency to burn up if they are dry at start up (they aren't designed to run dry)

Post by **salty_monk** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:49 am

No and I didn't lubricate this one either so I might be doing it again in a couple of weeks!!
Lucky I got an extra kit!!
It doesn't make any mention of that in my Haynes manual....

Post by **57traveller** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:36 pm

Just checked the heater fan on my Traveller. It's turning in an anticlockwise direction, visible (just) through the air intake aperture. It's the later heater with the central flap contol lever and fan switch on the underside, the car did not have a heater originally so there is no hole through the bulkhead and no "elephants trunk." The electrics have been changed to negative earth.
The pitch/angle of the fan blades would indicate to me that the fan should rotate clockwise for maximum air input. In a previous thread on this subject, where Willie was involved, the connection reversal was also discussed. I intend to try mine but as I explained then access was impossible because of the location of my radio/cd. Unfortunately it's a pig of a job to remove it. That's why I've not done it yet Willie!

Post by **57traveller** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 4:42 pm

Done it Willie!!
Just spent the last 1 1/2 hours swapping the two Lucar connectors over on the end of the heater motor.
1h 25min removing and refitting glovebox lid and liner, radio/cd and radio housing.

5 minutes removing connectors, refitting live feed to lower blade, cutting and extending earth wire to reach top blade and refitting.

If I remember correctly Willie had to extend one of the wires too.
Fan now running clockwise which in my opinion is correct direction.
Result - heater is a bit quieter and there is an increase of air flow - not an enormous increase but definitely better.

Post by **salty_monk** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 5:35 pm

Thanks for the info 57 - will reverse mine over later or convert the car back to negative earth.. (girlfriend wants a radio in there anyhow!!)

Post by **Willie** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 6:53 pm

57...at least it seems to have been worth all the effort.
SALTY....I did send you a post which advised you to oil the lip
of the new oil seal!! I cannot believe that failing to lubricate
it caused it to be' ripped to pieces', are you sure that there isn't
a burr or some roughness on the end of the axle casing?
Re the late type heater, I am confused as I cannot see or feel
the cylindrical fan through the 'elephant trunk' opening because
there is a round plastic liner in there??? The heater looks identical
to all other late Minor items but the air output is very very strong.
I wonder if the early Minis were identical on the outside but with
improved air flow? Does anyone know??

Post by **Kevin** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:44 pm

Right checked my 65`s heater and on removal of the elephant trunks hose you can see the fan with a bit of head ducking and use of a torch and lo and behold it runs anti-clockwise and there is quite a reasonable output and mine is still positive earth, somewhere I have a mini heater unit so will try to unearth it to see if the `elephant trunks` end is different.

Post by **salty_monk** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:17 am

Ah so that complicates things!! Seems like it may be running the right way after all, I have a mini heater in my shed so I guess I could rig that up for a looksee.... Perhaps the motor in the mini heater is just more powerful??

Willie - apologies for not listening!!

I reckon a burr got to the first one (probably cause the thread or tab washer was a bit rough & something worked through, I took extra special care to make sure all was smooth as a baby's behind this time even if I did forget to lube the lip.... fingers crossed still seems ok...

Post by **Willie** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:08 pm

SALTY.... did it properly this time and my fan revolves anti clockwise
viewed from the elephants trunk inlet.
57....don't know where that leaves you!! I suppose it is quieter because
it is actually moving less air? Perhaps it was phsycological that you
thought it was giving more air after all your hard work?

Post by **57traveller** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:15 pm

I don't know the origin of the heater unit in my Traveller, I didn't fit it. There is no plastic insert of any kind, as Willie indicates, which I suppose is the reason a section of the blades are just visible. I wonder if this insert is missing and that's why I'm only getting a slightly improved air flow? i.e some clearance between the edge of the fan and the intake side casing.
If my heater fan is compared with radiator fan which drags air from front to back with the leading edge of the blades, for clockwise rotation, nearest the radiator then on my heater fan the leading edge of it's blades are nearest the intake tube when turning clockwise thus drawing air from the car (or intake tube if fitted). Does that make sense

When it was turning anticlockwise the leading edges were then towards the heater centre and tending to drag air from there to the car through the intake. It might be possible to get the camera under there to take a pic of my fan for comparison. Emphasis on might!
Yes I think it was worth doing Willie ---- JUST

I've made access much easier now so that if necessary the connections can revert back to original without the need to remove anything.

The connections must have been as they were when positive earth because the earth wire would not reach the top Lucar until i lengthened it and they looked like the original push on connectors with no modifications to lengths having been made. So from that it would indicate that the fan would have turned clockwise when positive earth

Then anticlockwise when the change to neg. earth was made as it was prior to me doing the swap yesterday. Strange.
Or the fan is back to front!!

Post by **salty_monk** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:25 pm

AHHH - This gets more confusing by the minute!!

Post by **Willie** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:50 pm

OK, I have just played with my heater and found the following.
there is a smooth round plastic tube which enters the trunk side
of the heater for three inches. I have an excellent 'blow' from
the fan and when I changed the motor leads over I couldn't really
detect much difference! It was still excellent. If I place my hand
on the floor between the front seats I can feel quite a draught
from the fan.

Post by **57traveller** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:47 am

I've probably added to the confusion by the fact that I'm now suspecting that my heater could have been fitted in the car after being "cobbled" together with maybe a different fan to the norm plus something not quite right internally.
The plastic tube is missing which is possibly not helping form a seal between the fan and the intake casing.
The similar sized air outlets above the demister tubes are open with no hoses connected. I presume these direct air downwards to the feet? There is no air flow from them? In "demist" position there seems to be an equal air flow through the windscreen vents and the rectangular hole near the on/off switch. In "car" position the demist vents flow reduces and a greater flow from the rectangular hole.
The problem is I've never been in another Minor with this later type heater, only the earlier round type. My saloon has the round type and I think, compared to that in the Traveller, is better.
Thanks for checking yours again Willie.

Post by **Kevin** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:29 am

The plastic tube is missing which is possibly not helping form a seal between the fan and the intake casing.

My heater does not have the sleeve either and is the original later type as fitted with 2 hoses to the demisters and 2 that go through the holes in the parcel shelf, I will check the flows later.

Post by **57traveller** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 1:27 pm

Thanks for advising that Kevin. I was thinking of trying a piece of card rolled up to size just to see if there was any difference. Knowing my luck that would end up being dragged into the heater, wrecking the fan and blocking up the matrix!
There are no openings in my parcel shelf for the two other(missing) hoses that supply air to the footwell. Is the rectangular hole meant to be open? If so do you get an air flow there in addition to those two hose outlets when on "car" position?
I must have done something

When out in the car this morning tried the heater and there is now quite a blast of air into the vehicle interior. Previously on "demist" there was only a whisper from the vents now it's much more efficient. Most odd

I'd better quit while ahead.