Judder

Post by **Cam** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 2:45 pm

Gareth wrote:(seriously - never breaks down further than 10 miles from home )

Yes, but that's to be expected isn't it if you never venture more than 10 miles from home!!!

(Sorry - couldn't resist it!!

).

Post by **grainger** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:55 pm

kate, are you sure it isnt the gearbox steady ... its a short piece of tough wire tying your gearbox to the gearbox crossmember .... 'twank' sounds like the sort of noise that would make !

cheers
grainger

Post by **Cam** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 4:02 pm

Especially if (like you say) it's a bit slack.......

Post by **Gareth** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:41 pm

that's to be expected isn't it if you never venture more than 10 miles from home

Hmmm... fair point...

;)

Post by **Willie** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 7:45 pm

PYOOR....re the TWANK. Try the following...jack up the rear under
the diff so that both rear wheels are off the ground. With the hand-
brake off grasp the road wheel TOP and BOTTOM and try to rock the
wheel in and out. If no movement keep trying all around one
complete turn of the wheel. If you find a spot where you suddenly
get this rocking movement top to bottom then you will hear a 'clonk'.
This will be the half shaft hitting the inner roller bearing in the
diff cage due to excessive play in the thrust washers(the half shaft
does NOT run in contact with the bearing normally,just passes through
it to engage with the spline). If you find this condition then you do
not have to rush out and change the diff but at least you will know
where the TWANK comes from. This 'clang' will only occur when
you happen to hit a bump when the planet wheels are in a certain
position. There is no way that this could cause 'judder'!!

Post by **woo** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 9:17 pm

Kate,

I had horrible judder for some time. Letting out the clutch in 1st gear could be a bit delicate at times. Reversing always produced clonks, juddering and almost kangeroo-ing. It was really bad. I tweaked the engine and gearbox steadies many times, to no avail. In the end I got so fed up with it that I splashed out for a new clutch and UJ's. Result, no more clonking and perfect reversing. Apparently when they were taken off none of the components appeared to be bad. So individually it appears they were ok, but corporately they created a real problem.

Woo

Post by **Pyoor_Kate** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:26 pm

But did you have both uj`s changed or just one? I may be going mad but does not one of your postings say Rebbeca is under warantee with CW ? and you were having some work done by them.

Grainger, the floorpan and 'chassis' components are under guarantee 'cos that's all C.Ware's really did (entire floorpan) - that and a service. And yes, they're doing some remedial work following an omission in the restoration; specifically derusting, cleaning, painting and protecting the car. They're also doing some spray of the underside and apparently they've wired-brushed off some of the surface rust (which was on my list, but they apparently have saved me doing that

As to the UJ's, it's difficult to recall, it was in search of the judder that turned out to be a faulty tyre, as part of this the prop-shaft was changed twice and goodness knows how many other things were fiddled with. I had my wheels balanced I think 3 separate times!

are you sure it isnt the gearbox steady ... its a short piece of tough wire tying your gearbox to the gearbox crossmember .... 'twank' sounds like the sort of noise that would make !

Well, I thought it was the earth-strap when I heard it, because I noted that looked like it'd, well, moved (i.e. it looked like the clamped section extended well beyond the clamp, as though it was being dragged through the clamp, but it was also filthy (suggesting that it'd happened a logn time ago if it was happening!)) - but aye, it could be that... I should have a look.

It's only happened once which leads me to a vague fear that whatever it was has snapped.

Try the following...jack up the rear under the diff so that both rear wheels are off the ground. With the hand-
brake off grasp the road wheel TOP and BOTTOM and try to rock the wheel in and out. If no movement keep trying all around one
complete turn of the wheel. If you find a spot where you suddenly get this rocking movement top to bottom then you will hear a 'clonk'.

Okays, I'll stick that on Sunday's list of fun things to check. Cheers! I do know that one side of my diff has a very slow oil leak (which is also on my list of things that really do need sorting out moderately urgently)...

Apparently when they were taken off none of the components appeared to be bad. So individually it appears they were ok, but corporately they created a real problem.

Aye, I fear it being something like this, 'cos I just can't afford the time to sort that kind of thing out. Chasing faults is either very time consuming or very expensive (ime), and I neither have the time nor the money at the moment. Thankfully it's not that bad'er judder; I can put up with it (have done for weeks), and sometimes it just disappears of it's own accord for days. So...Hrm. It's an odd one.

Post by **grainger** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:25 pm

kate, the gearbox steady cable isnt the earth strap, its a short round piece of wire from the gearbox to the gearbox cross member ... its job is to stop juddering ! my last car had ended up with the fan going through the radiator because this cable was broken.

gr

Post by **les** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:46 pm

I have been reliably informed, by a member of this board in fact, and subsequently by reading my manual, that the main purpose of this gearbox wire is to prevent forward motion. The fact remains however that, amongst other things, it seems to have a marked effect on preventing or causing judder depending on the tension of this wire.

Post by **Kevin** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:00 pm

or causing judder depending on the tension of this wire.

Yup happen to a friend of mine after it was done up bow tight after a service and gave some vibration problems at different slower speeds and it took a while to fathom out what had caused it.

Post by **Pyoor_Kate** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:53 pm

the gearbox steady cable isnt the earth strap

No, I know, but it's the earth strap that's moderately tight on my car, whereas the gearbox retaining wire thing is fairly slack; which is why I feared the earth strap may have snapped. But it hasn't, I don't think, so hrm. Anyway, I will look on Sunday

Post by **Willie** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:29 pm

YES, the gearbox steady cable is there to prevent the engine from
shooting forward and hitting the radiator,BUT, it also has an effect
on judder because the clutch operating mechanism on a Minor is
pivoted with one end in the chassis leg and the other end in the
gearbox so, any forward movement of the engine would alter the
degree of operation of the clutch (which at the time you were trying
to delicately slip to obtain a smooth take off)!!

Post by **brixtonmorris** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:03 pm

i bet thats going to be an oily job

Post by **brixtonmorris** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:16 pm

the twank comes from somwhere on the drive train. not from the engine moving. u can hear it on many minors when you lets say "dump the clutch" and load the drive system. the sound comes from somwhere near the bell housing / clutch. (unless its what wille says). i kind of enjoy the sound. got to say though i just had to change the ujs cos one failed on the m2. not noticed the twang since but not been driving it much. i also wondered ifthe twang was the release bearing fork being thrown back and claning into the gearbox housing.

Post by **Gareth** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 6:16 pm

i just had to change the ujs cos one failed on the m2. not noticed the twang since

There's your answer... I had the twanking noise for a while - turns out one of the UJs was falling to bits. No more clanks, since that was done.