Traveller wood refurb question

[tysonn]

Hi all I recently signed up to this brilliant forum after buying a 1969 Traveller.Its basically a good car but I want to freshen up the exterior.Its smoke grey(which everyone swears is blue,me included).The main problem is that the elderly last owner has done the timber in a dark/mahogany colour which I hate.I'm going to sand it all down back to the proper wood colour.I also intend to respray the car in sections in 2 pack paint(presently in celly and its a pretty amateurish job).I have restored many cars in the past and painting is no problem for me.
My question is can I remove the rear ali body panels from the inside without too much upheaval?I reckon if this is possible it would make sanding/scraping off the magagony colour easier plus the panels would be far easier to paint off the car without any masking up etc?If my intention is a ridiculous idea because I'm missing something please forgive me and let me know.
Thanks
Mick

[simmitc]

The rear door panels can be removed "easily". It's "just" a question of removing all the screws that hold them on. Of course, you may find that they have seized, and that the cross head slots disintegrate, but mole grips should help.

The side panels are a different matter. You have to remove all the interior trim below the waist rail in order to gain access to the small cross head screws that hold the panels on. These almost certainly will be seized. some will not be accessible unless you remove the whole side from the car - now you are in to a major job! I have seen panels wrecked by people removing / grinding the accessible screws and then simply ripping the panel off the remaining screws. Good luck.

[tysonn]

Thanks for that.I can always just make new panels if any get damaged in their removal.When alls done and I come to refit the newly painted panels to the restored timbers do I use sealant/adhesive etc between the wood and ali?I think the answer will be yes in which case whats the recommended best stuff?
Thanks

[simmitc]

Definitely sealant. "Dum Dum" is the traditional material, but many modern sealants are fine. Look for one that is UV stable and preferably free from silicone in order to assist future painting and varnishing.

[bmcecosse]

You will not be able to remove/refit new side alloy panels - don't attempt this. And don't spray horrible 2 pack paint unless you have the correct air fed breathing apparatus (not just a dust mask) - it WILL kill you. In any case - the 2 pack finish always looks wrong on a Minor........

[tysonn]

Hmmm I'm a little confused now.One member says the panels can be removed with care and you're saying it can't be done?Which is true?I am new to Morris Minors but have been restoring cars for 30 years.As far as spraying 2 pack paints concerned I have been spraying it for years and i ain't dead yet.There is a lot of rubbish spoken about it usually by people who actually aren't speaking from experience:you need an oven or it'll never dry,it takes so long to dry that it'll be covered in airborne dust etc.Total rubbish!Agreed the hardener contains isocyanates that are injurious to health,but not if the proper precautions are taken.I can understand people still using cellulose from an originality point of view because it was used when the cars were built but I'm sure that if 2 pack was available at that time cellulose wouldnt have got a look in.Technological progression is a good thing most of the time.Its like crossply tyres,the difference between them and radials is beyond comparison.As far as the finish between celly and 2 pack is concerned I would challenge anyone to tell the difference between 2 well executed resprays in both types of paint.Yes modern cars painted in 2 pack and now water based paints by machine do look orange peely and thick/uneven.If a 2 pack paint finish is wet flatted and machine polished afterwards(which has to be done with cellulose also)the paint finish is just the same if not better and without arguement tougher and more hardwearing.I would never go back to cellulose.I aren't advising anyone to use anything just putting the record straight.

[bmcecosse]

The isocyanates are the BIG long term problem - the effects on the lungs may not show for years, although short term there is a serious risk if you breathe in the paint droplets and it then 'sets' on the lungs........ - it's really not practical for the home sprayer to take adequate precautions because ONLY an air fed mask will do. But if you have that - then you should be fine. Drying etc I think as you say is not a problem - any 2 pack cars I have seen have a sort of false 'sheen' to them - no problem with surface finish which is usually excellent. I believe 2pack is no longer permitted for commercial use?

[tysonn]

All the small spray shops round here use 2 pack.The outlay for the water based set up is expensive and its not straight forward to use mainly getting the basecoat to dry.An airfed setup for home use isnt prohibitively costly.A seperate small(2hp ish)compressor will give enough breathing air and you can buy a new mask for just over £100 if you look in the right places or second hand ones come up regularly on ebay.The outlay is negligible if doing your own respray in comparison to a shop paintjob.I always want a mirror finish on my paintwork and think thats more achievable in the first instance and definitely more certain to remain that way with 2 pack but thats just my opinion.

[bmcecosse]

The air to the Breathing Apparatus should be specially filtered to ensure ALL traces of oil from the compressor are removed - otherwise it can be just as bad for the lungs as the isocyanates. Note the HSE leaflet http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg388.pdf
As far as I can gather - you won't be able to buy non water based 2 pack after the end of this year...........
As for the aluminium side panels - I think it will not be possible to get in to fix new panels in place (but maybe use glue??) , although it may be possible to wrench out the old panels. I certainly agree that dark wood doesn't look right - I had to scrape and treat the timber on my Trav to remove horrible old varnish - and then Cuprinol 5 star followed by teak oil. And yes - it would have been much easier if the Al panels had not been there!

[tysonn]

You're right about the oil in the compressor but to be fair the painters I know just get on with it.A couple of years ago I thought I'd be clever and bought a Sealey 2hp,50 litre oil free compressor.It seemed perfect,vertical tank so it took hardly any space etc:then I switched it on!The bloody racket was unbelievable!Apparently this is the problem with oil free ones.I think they have plastic or teflon liners and of course no lubrication to speak of.No lubrication = NOISE!!!!! big time.I'm hoping this dark finish is quite thin and mainly lying on the surface.If so I'll attempt its removal before thinking of removing the panels.I can't really harm the panels as I'm gonna refinish them anyway.

[tysonn]

Just out of interest I received my paint order yesterday and in their latest pricelist they now sell "non-isocyanate hardener".As we all know the main need for the air fed mask with 2 pack is so you dont breathe the atomised hardener.This may be the solution to those who fancy using 2 pack but don't want the hassle and expense of getting a breathing set up?

[ian.mcdougall]

Iso free laquer and hardner used for smart or small repairs

[tysonn]

Oh do you mean unsuitable for full paint jobs?

[millerman]

Two-pack is the best way to go and the OP is well aware of the dangers AND has used the product AND I agree you can't tell the difference between that and celly

Two-pack seems freely available to DIY and trade who are still using it with the correct safety precautions.

You can't remove the ally side panels on a Traveller without taking the side off, you just have to bite the bullet and do it

Probably find more corrosion then

Tysonn just carry on you have more experience than most of us already

[bmcecosse]

Indeed - but the safety problems need to be aired so others won't follow blindly after reading the thread. And - I reckon I can always tell when a car has been sprayed with 2 pack rather than celly - it stands out a mile........

[millerman]

And - I reckon I can always tell when a car has been sprayed with 2 pack rather than celly - it stands out a mile........

Agreed better paint keeping its colour/shine for longer

[bmcecosse]

Well - if that's how you see it! I see a false 'sheen' rather than a nice deep celly shine ! (Sadly not on my car I hasten to add..... ).

[Neil MG]

It it absolutely impossible to tell the difference if the paint is blocked back, compounded and machine polished. Both paints are capable of giving a mirror gloss and winning concours. Not of concern to most Minor owners.

If you compare the results from the gun then often 2 pack has that "orange peel and dust" high gloss and, I agree with Roy, looks fake. Usually cellulose (painted in the same "semi-professional" way) will look much drier. It takes a lot of skill and expertise to get a high gloss finish on cellulose, as it shrinks and hardens over days and weeks, often losing its sheen.

Two pack will give better results with less coats and is generally both harder and more flexible. That said, there is a vast range in two pack paint quality and you certainly get what you pay for.

Cellulose is a very convenient paint for DIY. Easy to play with different thinner combinations etc. and because it will not cure there is no time factor for playing with spray patterns, cleaning equipment etc. The fast flash off times also allow spraying in less clean surroundings. Finally the paint is soft and easy to repair and refinish. The big drawbacks are the solvent softening of underlying repairs and the long time to fully harden and finish shrinking (can be months).

[tysonn]

Cost can also be a factor.The raw materials cost roughly the same but 2 coats of 2 pack will give a far thicker layer of paint than many times that with cellulose.A good compromise around the shrinkage problems cellulose has especially over repaired/filled areas for anyone who prefers celly as the top coat is to use 2 pack primer as the basecoat.

[Neil MG]

Cost can also be a factor.The raw materials cost roughly the same but 2 coats of 2 pack will give a far thicker layer of paint than many times that with cellulose.A good compromise around the shrinkage problems cellulose has especially over repaired/filled areas for anyone who prefers celly as the top coat is to use 2 pack primer as the basecoat.

Agree absolutely, although you will still need a cellulose primer on top unless you are a very experienced painter.

A little more expensive possibly, but using an isolator coat over all existing paint or repairs is also highly recommended.