Rear Brakes

[Mnkyno4]

Hello I'm in the process of freeing up seized rear brake on a 68 morris saloon.
I've taken the drums off, not easy!
Replaced the pipes , back left and back right from the three way junction.
Replaced one of the banjo's as the old one was rusted into the pipe.
Replaced the pistons....

Here's where my problem is, I got the whole brakes back together with all the sparkly new bits, I was unsure about the pistons they seemed really awkward to get in, but connected it all up. Bled the brakes. The pedal doesn't return when pressed and when I tried the handbrake and I think it's "popping" the rear left cylinder out of the back plate. The right doesn't seem to be doing this.

I've been using the workshop manual, but I'm stuck as I can't figure out why the cylinder ( the whole thing mind not the piston in the middle) slides so much up and down in the back plate that it comes back through and ( i think ) will stop the handbrake from workinbg.

When I bought the spares there was only one option for the cylinder, have I been lax in my reasearch and bought the wrong one? When I took the brakes appart have I missed somekind of locking bolt/pin to stop the cylinders coming out.

On the bright side, I have freed up the brakes so I can now move the car....I'd like to be able to stop it though now too! I know, i know I want the moon on a stick.

All help gratefully received.

Phil

[bmcecosse]

How did you get new 'pistons' for the rear brake cylinders? I've only ever heard of new seals for these - but no new pistons....... These cylinders do slide up/down in the backplate, and normally they are quite difficult to get out of the backplate - and certainly they can't come out during a brake application!

[beero]

Some photos would be handy. Someone may be able to spot your mistake (if any) or incorrect part.
You said there was only one option for wheel cylinders. You did get one nearside and one offside?
I had to take the four bolts out that hold the backplate on to change my cylinders.
You also say the pedal doesn't return.
Take off the floor panel above the master cylinder and have a look to see if the pedals return spring is okay.

[kennatt]

when you say its popping he cylinder out of the back plate,what do you mean,are you pulling the brake with the hub off and watching the cylinder move,the design of the cylinder requires it to move in the back plate it can't come out if you have fitted the springs correctly ie on the inside of the shoes,since they hold the cylinder forcing it onto the back plate.they come out forwards the back plate stops them moving the other way.The ends of the shoes locate into slots on the cylinder holding everything in place. If the pedal is not returning try a good spray of penatrating oil onto the pedal shaft probably sticking.

[bmcecosse]

Rear brake cylinders are NOT handed......

[mike.perry]

Have you connected and adjusted the handbrake cables correctly?
Have you fitted new cables?
If not have you greased th cables and oiled the end of the cables?

[Mnkyno4]

Hello

Thanks for all the advice so far

Pictures to follow ( good idea!)

I may be mis naming some parts so appologies, I mean the cylinder ( not the piston within the cylinder). I ordered it form G S Jones ( not sure I'm allowed to put a link here), there was only one size for the rear brakes. Pic attached.

I'll have a look at the spring under teh panel thanks for that.

Regarding the return springs in the brakes they are between the shoes and the back plate, I put new ones on too as this was listed as a reason why the pedal might not be returning.

The cylinder Slides too far ( down?) I think when I applied the hand brake, as the foot pedal isn't working just yet. Could this be the shoes need adjust with the cam more when the drum is replaced? I'm sure I adjusted them as much as I could.[frame][/frame]

[Mnkyno4]

Have you connected and adjusted the handbrake cables correctly?
Have you fitted new cables?
If not have you greased th cables and oiled the end of the cables?

No, Intially ( after the refit) the handbrake lever , when pulled, acted normally. But I can have a look at this. Thanks

Phil

[mike.perry]

[quote="Mnkyno4"]Hello
The cylinder Slides too far ( down?) I think when I applied the hand brake, as the foot pedal isn't working just yet. Could this be the shoes need adjust with the cam more when the drum is replaced? I'm sure I adjusted them as much as I could [quote]?????????????????????

What are you doing????
The back brakes must be adjusted first with the brake drums ON, then the handbrake cables adjusted so that each wheel pulls up equally

[bmcecosse]

Leave the handbrake cables disconnected from the cylinders until you have the foot brake working and fully adjusted. Only then should you firstly slacken off the cables at the handbrake lever, then connect the cables to the cylinder levers - and then adjust up at the hand lever until you get the brake to grip just where you want it.

[beero]

Rear brake cylinders are NOT handed......

[Mnkyno4]

Hello
The cylinder Slides too far ( down?) I think when I applied the hand brake, as the foot pedal isn't working just yet. Could this be the shoes need adjust with the cam more when the drum is replaced? I'm sure I adjusted them as much as I could

?????????????????????

What are you doing????
The back brakes must be adjusted first with the brake drums ON, then the handbrake cables adjusted so that each wheel pulls up equally

Hello, Yes I did all that. re assembled the brakes, adjusted etc. when I applied the hand brake I heard the clonk/pop from the brake drum.

Took off the drum and tried to figure out what the clonk was and it looked like the cylinder sliding down too far in the back plate and the top of the metal lip on the cylinder catching the gap in the plate.
I'll disconnect the hand brake and try and get the foot pedal un stuck.

Thanks

[Mnkyno4]

Leave the handbrake cables disconnected from the cylinders until you have the foot brake working and fully adjusted. Only then should you firstly slacken off the cables at the handbrake lever, then connect the cables to the cylinder levers - and then adjust up at the hand lever until you get the brake to grip just where you want it.

I'll give that a go. Thanks

[bmcecosse]

When the brakes are adjusted up correctly - the cylinder hardly moves at all - and is secure in the slot.

[kennatt]

it could be that since the foot bake is not yet working that the shoes are not being centralised equaly inside the drums(When ever I have the drums off before I do anything I press the foot brake a few times to do this, then start adjustments etc) If you can't get the fb to work try pulling on the handbrake lever at the cylinder end a few times then adjust up pulling on the handbrake and re adjusting if required see if that works,of course each time you take the drum off you are bound to move the shoes which may then look as though they have dropped the cylinder down a bit.

[Mnkyno4]

Thanks again for all the advice

Disconnectedteh handbrake cabels from the cyinders andadjusted the lock cam screw BUT!!! One wheel I can lock but the other won;t lock the cam reached the end of it's adjustment then pops backround.

Could i have put the wrong shoes / drum back on the wrong wheel?

Do I ned new shoes or adjusters or both?

The wheel I could "lock" I've reconnected the hand brake to ( though not adjusted yet)

PS the pedal returns now.

Phil

[bmcecosse]

Are the shoes badly worn?

[Mnkyno4]

They look ok. They had stuck to the inside of the drums when I left the HB on. COuld I get away with setting the adjuster to teh maximum setting?

Phil

[bmcecosse]

Worth a try - but a new set of rear shoes is not expensive. You don't really want to be taking risks with the brakes........

[Mnkyno4]

Good call. I'll get a new set and new adjuster. That Can;t hurt.