Bare metal protection

Post by **Cam** » Sun Feb 23, 2003 10:36 pm

Over the summer, I plan to start repairing my '52 sidevalve.

This will involve a complete stripdown & rebuild, as well as paint removal and a reasonable amount of welding.

I don't have a problem with that side of things, but I just thought I would ask the more experienced folks, the following questions:

After baring the metal, what is the best way to protect the areas prior to spraying if large areas are considered??

Also, any tips on what rust prevention measures are to be used? and in what sequence with regard to priming painting etc.

I have a rough idea myself, but I would like to get it right as this car will take a while to do and I do not want to be wasting my time by having rust showing back through in a couple of years!

Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks folks!

Post by **Willie** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 6:46 pm

Lo Cam, I wrote you a book this afternoon on this subject but
got"invalid session" at the end so it all got lost. Apart from losing the
will to live I was not upset!!.
I suppose the basic question is: are you going to spray it yourself?
Do you have a heated garage?
Do you want to be able to eat your dinner off of the underneath or
do you just want a car which will take all weathers without rusting
again?
Willie

Post by **Cam** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 7:21 pm

Hi Willie, I hoped you would answer my question!!

Sorry you spent the time typing a load of info on my behalf only to have the infernal website destroy it. It has happened to me before and is extremely infuriating!!! Now I always cut and paste long posts before clicking on the submit button - just in case!!

are you going to spray it yourself?

I would like to.....I have not sprayed with a compressor / proper spray gun before, so I would like have a go. I have been spraying smallish areas (wings etc) with aerosols for years and I am getting reasonable results now, so I would like to move on from that and get a compressor and do it properly (or at least try!!).

Do you have a heated garage?

Not as such, my garage can get a bit draughty at times but I have a portable electric oil storage heater and a couple of electric convector heaters that I could press into service which should keep the temperature reasonable.

Do you want to be able to eat your dinner off of the underneath or
do you just want a car which will take all weathers without rusting
again?

Mainly the latter, I was thinking that a thick black hammerite (smooth) type coating coating on the underside will probably protect the body a lot better than a few coats of the body colour. And as I don't intend to show the car, then the originality of the underside is not THAT important to me.

I was also considering spraying the major mechanical components (axle, prop, stub axles, etc) with the same stuff for added protection.

With regard to compressors / guns do you have any advice on which types to go for? as I have absolutely no idea which to go for. I have only used them before for air tools, and never for spraying so I don't know what the deal is with the oil / no-oil types for spraying suitability.
Also, I don't want to spend a fortune, but I don't mind spending a little bit extra if the unit will last a good few years and do other jobs as well.

Any advice you can give me will be appreciated.

Post by **les** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 9:51 pm

Cam, I trust Willie will be responding to your main points soon but thought I'd mention that I have used SMOOTH hammerite on the mechanical parts you described with pleasing results. The finish is prone to chip if knocked too hard but does protect and wipes down pretty well. The prop is best treated with a light coat of cellulose so as not to affect the balance.
If you decide to spray your car use cellulose paint wearing a mask, but not two pack unless you have an extraction system etc; apparently it's not good for you! good luck.

Post by **Willie** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 9:54 pm

right, I am not going to say too much in case it times out again.
We can do it in instalments.
I am not a professional but have had good long lasting results
with my way. You cannot leave the bare metal for even
24 hours without rust starting unless you have a temperature
controlled environment so in your case you should not finally
clean it down until you are ready to apply the primer filler coats.
when at bare metal stage treat any pitted areas with Jenolite
(liquid...not the gel) to neutralise any recessed rust. The secret
of a great finish is in the undercoat(if you can feel an imperfection
with your finger tips then it WILL show in the top coat)
The proper way to get the finish perfectly ready for the top coats
is to spray a 'flash coat'. A very light coat of a different colour to
the undercoat. Now rub that flash coat off! any imperfections
will show up where the flash coat will not go away.
Thats episode 1.....................Willie

Post by **Willie** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 10:02 pm

regarding the underside. I clean off as much rust as possible,
using every method known to man! Again I use Jenolite on
pitted areas. Like you I favour smooth Hammerite paint which has
the ability to smother rust. Then I spray everything except the
prop shaft and exhaust with Waxoyl. I leave it for a couple of
months use in the hot dusty months and then I spray again with
Waxoyl,over the dust which has stuck to the Waxoyl. This gives
a lovely gungy coating which, on all my cars, has proved very
protective and long lasting. I merely get underneath once a year
with a brush and a pot of Waxoyl and re-coat any 'thinned'
areas which means the sill sections and the jacking points where
they are shot blasted by the water and muck thrown by the front
wheels.
Willie

Post by **Willie** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 10:24 pm

episode 3 Never buy a compressor unless it has at least a
25 litre 'reservoir'. without a reservoir tank you cannot get
continuous spray pressure. I use a SIP model which was well
under £200 and I think there are more to choose from these
days so the prices are probably lower. The spray gun i use
is a Sealy Model S701. It is so beautifully made that I don't
like getting it dirty!! the important point is to get one where
the paint pot is sealed to the spray head by twisting a lever.
The type where you screw the paint pot to the spray head are
a pain and often leak. Nothing is worse than a gun which leaks
blobs of paint on to your lovely panels. Believe you me the gun
will spend a lot of time almost upside down when you are doing
the car so you need to be confident in its leakproofness!
Oh yes,I agree with les, I have hammerited the rear axle too
Willie

Post by **Cam** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 12:30 am

Les, yes, I intend to use cellulose, as I don't fancy the idea of two pack.

Willie,
What sort of CFM and PSI compressor will I need for spraying?? also, what sort of price of gun should I go for? I have been looking in Machine Mart and their prices seem to range from £20 to £260. so clearly there is a large difference in equipment. I will probably use Machine Mart as there is an outlet a couple of miles from me.

Also, is media / grit blasting a good idea to remove rust, and if so how will this affect the decision of which compressor to go for?

Post by **Willie** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 3:13 pm

Re Cellulose.... there are various grades of the 'thinners'which
you use with it. The really cheap stuff is suitable only for cleaning
the gun and tools etc. The better grade is ok for the undercoats.
The top quality is 'anti-bloom'. If there is the slightest moisture
in the ambient air when spraying the car you can get 'blooming',
a highly annoying effect where your beautifully sprayed panel
gradually goes milky as it dries. There is no cure, you have to
respray.
Willie

Post by **Cam** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 4:21 pm

As luck would have it, a mate of mine is spraying his van soon, so I will ask him lots of questions about the gun / compressor issues (that Willie is avoiding!!

). Also, it will be interesting to actually SEE the results for myself!

Thanks chaps, and keep the suggestions coming, you can't have too much info!!

Post by **Willie** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 4:24 pm

My model is an SIP AIRMATE 21025 1.5 HP, single cylinder
single phase, Max pressure 8 BAR, 8CFM, Max PSI 118.
Receiver(tank) 25 ltrs. The same make basic model has identical
spec without any tank. I think mine was about £170. The difference
between a 10 litre model and a 25 litre was less than £20! You will hear
people say that they successfully sprayed a car with an attachment
fitted to a vacuum cleaner.....or so they say!
Shot blasting is a bit specialised and there is a danger of causing
distortion on the panels.....I do not know the minimum pressure
for blasting........speak to a specialist.
Willie

Post by **Cam** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 4:46 pm

Ha Ha, I knew that comment would produce results!!!

No, seriously, thanks Willie I will have a look at the specs of some compressors. Now I know that your spec will be fine for spraying - I have some base line to work from.

Post by **Willie** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 9:36 pm

i will attempt to e-mail a pic of my car as I have never been
able to include one in a post. My basic philosophy was to get
a good finish by spraying on about thirty coats and then rubbing
fifteen of them off! I have improved my technique a little since
then.
Willie

Post by **Cam** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 1:19 am

Blimey mate!!!

If I manage half as good a job as that I will be very happy.

That is a hell of a good looking paint job.

I know you can't always tell from photos, but that look immaculate!

A very nice example of a 1957 moggy from Devon!!

Post by **fweddy** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 3:05 am

I was told not to go under a 9cfm air rate, you have to be careful with the specs as some are not relating to the actual output on continuous flow. I have a 9cfm with 40ltr tank and it seems fine for what I've done so far. I was actually about the go paint more but decided to come have a drink and check the message board for any inspriation.

Post by **Cam** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 3:21 am

What's the deal with oil / oil free compressors? Do you have to have a filter for painting?

Post by **Willie** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 4:07 am

Lo, apart from the fact that you do not have to keep a check on
the oil level the other result seems to be that the 'Oil free' type
need a more careful check on the innards of the reservoir tank
You are aware I am sure , that when spraying,there is quite a lot
of water produced. If the tank isn't drained frequently you can end
up spitting water droplets all over your new paint. There is an
air filter and a filter in the spray gun too. You could filter your neat
paint through a pair of tights if it has lumps in it!!
Willie

Post by **Cam** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 2:47 pm

Yes, I was aware of the water issue, but I thought that the oil type might introduce oil into the air as well?? or is that wrong?

Also, if you have filtered any oil out of the air, do the power tools need it for lubrication, or am I barking up the completely wrong tree?!?

Post by **Cam** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 4:17 pm

Willie,

Here is the picture of your car, for all to see:

Post by **Gareth** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 5:44 pm

Green with envy!
Looks fab, Willie. Love the NC seats - very nice.

Morris Minor Owners Club

Bare metal protection

Bare metal protection

paint

painting

episode 2

sprayer

cellulose

compressor

paint

paint