Dolly Exposed

[Multiphonikks]

Hi

Don't worry too much. There are bound to be a few rusty bits

And far better to know about them to not!


Nikki

(I think you'll be fine if you methodically tackle each problem as you can afford to

[rayofleamington]

Well the wood packers are not ideal but judging by the state of the A-post (hole rotted around the interior light switch, corrosin on the inner A post panel etc..) then I guess the inner wings and all this area is a bit rotten and could be letting water in - it's probably been going like that on for a long time.
These things can keep going for a long time so don't panick just yet.

[Relfy]

Oh Good. That's alright then! Cos it doesn't have a choice. Got no money.

Weehee! I think its worth the money I bought her for just for the learning experience though! Shame its not going to you guys...

Nikki, as something of a musical connoiseur, you would appreciate the fine vocal talent of our parrot! He knows lots of poems, but enjoys singing too. He likes sad things like Bon Jovi most (there's no teaching some people), but he also likes Jazz, and I just got him singing along to my old grandma's CD of Harry Secombe! Hahaha!

Why is Hebe called Hebe? I've always thought that was a kind of plant with bottle-brush flowers...

[Willie]

If you paid £1550 for the car and you know the seller quite well
I think you should be able to negotiate a sizeable refund toward
the obviously necessary metal replacement which is required.
It would be interesting to take it for an MOT yourself and see what
the tester says. Armed with what I suspect would be a 'failure sheet'
your argument would be stronger.

[sb]

co-incidentally, what are the door gaps like (between the door and the body?) If they are nice and even all around then at least if the floor has been tackled in the past it means no-ones managed to get it out of allignment...

I reckon on closer inspection I should try changing all the window rubbers. Is that a small fortune?

Don't worry too much about that three quarter window gap, both of mine are very similar and i can only assume many mogs are like that. Indeed talking to other owners you will find many similar niggles on these old cars that in reality could all be corrected but hey! its part of the moggies charm. Certainly the rubbers do become very brittle with time. I had to replace the rear windscreen (£20)as it leaked water into the back, down the inside rear wheel arches and collected on the floor to rot...ahh.
You'd be better off dealing with your underside first.

Yes cabin lights should come when door opens however, like yours mine don't and it involves more than taking the front wings off.

The wood panel at the front wing appears to be a unique part as metioned in a previous thread, personaly i've used oudles of silicone here to bridge the gap and whilst the wings are not sitting perfect its water tight and ok for a forty year old car. Silicone, i may offend a few people here, makes a good bung in hard to reach places cos it moulds to the shape and can be pulled out again if needed.
On mine water used to enter between the door posts (front and back), as it ran down the door's water prof strip, and the door kicker plate and into the out part of the box section... Hence silicone. Looks like a couple of old worms hanging out, but does the job.

cheers, sb

[sb]

Relfy, just checked out your first thread after looking at this one.
anyway, yes the devon run is long, even for me in Plymouth, so if you find yourself in the "BIG smoke" any time your welcome to visit the Mogster and compare. Unfortuantly shes off the road at the moment awaiting a new clutch so i can't meet you midway, sorry.

Looking further at your pictures i suggest you do ask the guy who sold it to you to reconsider his action and refund a sizable chunk.

Yours is a nice color though, my paintwork requires a fair bit of....er..well paint.

Pm me if you require directions/phone number.

Cheers, sb.

[Chris Morley]

Well.... I've certainly seen worse (you should see the 4 door in my back garden!) and it is capable of being turned around. And as Nikki says, at least it's not covered by the dreaded cover patches. If the section under the rear seat is dry and rust-free then that's a major result. But it will cost you a lot of money within the next few years unless you have a welder in the family.

Clearly the car should have failed the MOT on the holes near to the crossmember. The outer sills are quite bad also (most examiners would fail these) and I've never seen a hole in the top part of the sill/box section. You really need to remove the cover plates to have a good look at the entire box section. I bet there will be a lot of flaky rust & holes in there and it may need a lot of work. Certainly the area where the driver's footwell meets the wheel arch is bad and this isn't an easy area to repair. Water may be dribbling down the A post and/or be leaking from the windscreen rubber. I find it hard to believe the previous owner was unaware of all these holes or the wet carpet. Really, in the current buyer's market the money you paid should have secured a largely rust-free example.

To give you an idea, I've had my scabby 2 door for five years. In that time I've spent about £500 on welding repairs and done about the same amount of work myself. It required a fair amount of welding around the rear inner wings before it's first MOT. Within the next few years it had new off side sills (inner and outer), a crossmember end, a plate over the o/s boxing plate and a part of the n/s inner sill patched. In recent years it's had a repair to the n/s chassis leg and part of the front o/s wheel arch. I would say however that your car will need a bit more work than mine has had and it only cost me £475 with 3 months MOT (although the paint job wasn't great). So you are owed a decent refund - but the seller has no legal obligation to refund a penny as it's buyer beware. You may have a case against the MOT issuer - I believe corrosion can be challenged within 3 months.

[Robins]

Relfy
In answer to one of your question, yes, the A-post is the piller the hinges bolt to on the body.
I've seen much worse with an MoT!! When I bought my traveller a few years ago I was wearing my rose tinted glasses. It came with a full MoT, although I have no idea how. At least yours is un-messed about with, you have what I call an 'honest rust problem'. It's not been bodged with filler, bad repairs covered up, or like my traveller was in a few places had aluminium plates stuck on with silicone and painted in underseal!! After a total rebuild later I replaced just about every panel available.
Insetead of turning up to this chap you bought her off and asking for a refund due to rusty parts. Maybe you should say something along the lines of "I'm no expert in these things, but I've noticed a few things that don't look like they should have passed an MoT, could you have a look and tell me what you think?" that way he won't fell so threatened, things are more friendly and at the end of the day he might do all the welding needed for free or at least parts only cost, providing you can't weld yourself that is?. It might be that this chap hasn't looked under the car and assumed by the MoT centre giving a ticket that things are solid. Don't fall out with this chap over it, it's not worth it.
From what can be seen of the bodywork on dolly though, I think you probably got your moneys worth, despite the rust underneath. I'm also assuming the mechanical side of things is good.
cheers, Daniel

[Relfy]

Hmm..... well I have sort of already done that. I showed him the rust inside the driver's footwell. This is how it went:

K: "Oh you've taken out the carpet!" (It was newly put in before I bought it)
Me "Yes, I'm worried about this rust on the sill"
K: "These cars dont' have sills. Oh you mean the kickplate"
Me *silence*
K: "Oh...That's alright, that's solid. You expect a bit on an old car"
Me: "Yes, I know that, thats fine, I'm just..." and I dropped the point in order to do a bit more research.

At that point, I hadn't actually scraped at it, to reveal the holes, or got underneith to pull off all the rotten rust that was concealing the holes in the under-sill I've showed you guys.

I did ask him at the same time, who did the MOT, and it wasn't him. He told me the garage where he took it, and its where he takes a lot of cars that come to him for restoration etc.
As Dolly was his OWN car, he may well NOT have looked at her, but trusted the garage as he is a good customer of theirs and he's busy with everyone else's restorations.
On the other hand, he is a 'body' man (no sniggers) and he ought to know rust in a bad place when he sees it.

BUT there is politics here. He was the chap who did up dad's austin 10, which dad found mouldering in a barn with chickens living in. As you can imagine, this was a pretty huge job with time and fees to match. Dad fortunately can afford that sort of thing (well thinks he can anyway), whereas my finances are in sharp contrast.
- I asked dad what I should do then (not wanting to destroy relations between him and Keith) and he said I should go and show him. I think dad trusts him implicitly, whereas I'm not entirely sure...

When I bought Dolly, it went like this:

Keith: "I've just taken her engine apart and she's running really well. And I took her for an MOT 2 months ago, so 10 months left"
Me: "That's good."

....Later during the test drive (her engine is, as he says, lovely) I asked:

Me: "Is there any rust I should be keeping an eye on?"
Keith: "There's always a bit of rust on an old thing like this, you know"
Me: "If I drove her for a year and sold her again, would I be able to get the same money back?"
Keith: "Oh yes!"

So thats how things stand. I'm not very good at tactful confrontation and tend to avoid it if I know I'll not be able to do it without making a hash of things.
Also, from all your responses I'm still not sure myself if it was a bad price anyway! (I just know I cant afford any big bills in the next year or two, and that I'd made sure Keith knew that). So I'm doubly hesitant to get in a fluster about it.

I think what I'll do is take it to the family's regular garage for an opinion and then think about whether to and how to approach Keith. As you say, he may well fix it for me, as he is a 'body' man...and he may well want a word with his garage! On the other hand, if he bluffs it, I'll just have to drop it as it was me who bought her.

Will keep you updated!

[Relfy]

Have a butcher's at my final page.... it looks as Chris and Ray say - whole box section - only holier!

[aupickup]

well i have simialar experiences, but i have only been caught once,

i took soliciters advice, and at least got 3/4 of my money back.
so in my mind friends or no friends, ask for money back or take him to court.
also suggest you will look into the mot station, and see if the dvla want to be notified,

good luck and do not be fobbed off.

[Relfy]

Well, I think that might be just a wee bit of panic-mongering aupickup... She's not exactly falling to bits on the road yet!!

The latest news folks, is I took her along to the steam fair at Botallack (Good fun, recommend it)... anyway there was another Morris 1000 there, 1956. So i got chatting to their owners and talking about Dolly.....
- Got them panicking too!!

...Then. I went and got her out the carpark to show em....

All the old guys with their HUGE steam tractors and the farmers aswell, they ALL had a good rammage and poke around.....

And then they all fell about laughing!!!

"Oh! the way you was talkin, we thought yer 'ole floorpan was falling out!"

"Go on with you! You got nothing to worry about there love!"

"She's absolutely lovely. Let me listen to her engine. Maid, That's sweet"

"I'd say you definitely got a bargain there!! dont you listen to 'im"
(Referring to guy winding me up on the right).

"You get your brother-in-law to weld it, change your rubbers, thats all that needs doing there."

SO THERE!

(although they agreed I need to sort out the hole next to the crossmember)

The OTHER morris, by the way, was bought from Portreath for £800 in what sounds like a much poorer state.


- Other interpretations still welcome of course, and sb, I'd still like to bring her up, please.

[sb]

So thats how things stand. I'm not very good at tactful confrontation and tend to avoid it if I know I'll not be able to do it without making a hash of things. On the other hand, if he bluffs it, I'll just have to drop it as it was me who bought her.

Will keep you updated!

well actually you have already confronted him and i'm sure with your new information you can do so again. I recall in a previous thread that you wanted to have a car with a bit to do and that you wanted to do everything yourself....well you are. OK, you should have done your research before and it would seem that you've bitten of more than you can chew but hey, who has'nt at some time or another, and keith ain'nt so friendly post sale...

I spoke to a friend about your situation today and she suggested speaking to a trading standards officer, informing the dvlc about the M.O.T station and ultimately asking keith for your money back.

Please don'tdrop it cos you like these little cars and with a refund, together with a bucket full of experiance and knowledge, you'll find another moggey or make yours good!

Having said that, its your gig and i don't want to pressure you. take peoples advice, consider your options and do whats best for you!

It a steep learning curve... but you can do it!

Good Luck! cheers, sb

[sb]

Well, I think that might be just a wee bit of panic-mongering aupickup... She's not exactly falling to bits on the road yet!!




- Other interpretations still welcome of course, and sb, I'd still like to bring her up, please.

Good for you! It would seem that were both back from the pub and you posted yours as i wrote mine, anyway yes anytime.

sb

[aupickup]

well as far as cars go there a lot to choose from so i am afraid for £1500.00 you can buy one in very good condition, and no holes or welding to be done.

get your money back and find a better one for less money.
for what it is worth that is what i would do

[Chief]

get your money back and find a better one for less money.
for what it is worth that is what i would do

A moggy is for life, not just for Christmas Judging by what's said in the posts I don't think they would give it up

[Relfy]

Fair-do's aupickup, but I'd like to re-emphasise that everything else on the car, I mean EVERYTHING is SPIK! Believe me. I'm a girl I know about these things. (Kevin)
Also I'm looking at the real thing whereas you're looking at pictures - which actually look worse than it is, now I look with my objective-eyes in.

Perhaps I should write another web-site with all her good points... like the completely sound rear-end, reasonable front end, nice paint-work, chrome etc, sound interior and electrics, beautiful engine etc.

Have been experimenting with a bit of water - and on that passenger side I think the reason for the top rust-hole is there's nowhere for water to drain from the roof etc. Water runs from the roof down the channel and then pools behind the wing in a little corner above the hole, then it drains gradually through the join and into the hole. Its because whoever put the wing on didn't leave a slope down from under the bonnet over the wing or into the drainage hole. Anyway, even I could remedy that! (I think)

The drainage hole is also blocked (Well, it isn't now!)

The other side is fine from that point of view.

I will take her back to see Keith and show her the holes. I suspect he'll do the welding for me. (Then, I'll force my bro-in-law to teach me, although he's got shingles at the moment, or I'll do a course). The owner of yesterday's morris takes his car to the garage Keith retired from ages ago. They specialise in old cars. I didn't tell him who I bought Dolly off (not having decided on what I think about Keith yet), I did tell him who did the MOT and he was shocked (he was imagining horrors, not having seen her). They have a very good name....actually its where my grandad takes his car too, and he's never had any problems. Once I DID show him Dolly he said she's more than worth the money, but they should have welded the hole next to the cross-member before passing her MOT....That, however, is a little hole about an inch x half an inch.

Of course, when I showed them the car, they thought I was just a panic-mongerer like aupickup anyway! (I'm just teasing).

Thanks everyone for all your concern. sb you're right I did buy her for the learning - and I'm learning and enjoying it heaps!! Even if I WAS ripped off - (which I dont think I was intentionally... still in the super-sleuthing phase- better to get your facts right before lynching someone) - I dont regret it atall. This is what life is all about....learning and people. Just call me.... um.... 'some famous philosopher'.

Nikki, dont be too horrified I said that! Dolly is important too! (And my bank balance takes reasonable precedence also....)

El.

[Gareth]

Sounds like you're feeling much happier about your purchase! That's nice to hear!

[Robins]

I think legal action is a big mistake aupickup. Especially as there is a family friend involved. Everyone needs friends, treat em bad and they're gone, then when you need em most they just aint there anymore and your on your own, which leaves you in a mess. I, thankfully haven't found this out the hard way but know people who have. Money is horrible stuff! Every one wants it but no one wants to give it away, apart from a select few. It's this select few who seem to be the happiest in life. If your happy with you Morris Relfy, thats all that counts isn't it.
From what we haven't seen I would still say you got a good deal. We haven't seen door bottoms, boot lid, boot floor, rear pasenger floor, inner wings, outer wings, front panel and front chassis, so they must been clean and rust free. The carpets sound new and get the impression the interior is tidy and the mecahnicals are good. So only problems is some rust showing up. If you can't weld, this is a problem. But if you know someone that can weld and will teach you or give you use of equipment to learn then the problem disapears. No point getting stressed out with legal action, just enjoy the car.
I've been trying to find time all summer to go down to Cornwall on a Pastie run. You just can't get the real thing here. I was going to borrow mums Audi for a trip to st Ives (they taste better there) but if you wanted to meet up and get another opinion on your saloon or what ever I could bring my Traveller out to play, dosn't come out much.

cheers, Daniel

[Multiphonikks]

Fell what about what now?;)