Dolly Exposed

Post by **Relfy** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:07 pm

Hi Everyone,

I wonder if someone would have a look at my website with pics of Dolly's rust:
http://dollymorris.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/

These are the worst bits and I had to do quite a bit of scraping and tapping with a sharp tool to expose them.

Please don't panic-monger; she's my car and rather sensitive.... But things I'd like to know are:

1.) Are there any 'MOT failers' by rights? (its still got 10 months left, but I suspect there's something dodgy going on...)

2.) Is it imperative I fix anything immediately? How do i go about it?

4.) How much might that cost?

5.) What do you think the source of water (esp. driver's side) is?
It doesn't appear to be window rubbers or coolant pipes...

6.) Is there anything else I should show pictures of?
You mentioned brake pipes Ray?....I dont know what they look like.
Has anyone got a diagram of the underside with everything in place?

8.) Anyone want to give a rough valuation for the car?
(Then I can go back and wallop Keith).

........You'll be pleased to know everything else is in spic condition, even the boot-bottom and box under the rear-seat, and especially the engine and workings are lovely.

Thanks very much!
El.

(p.s. Exhibiting in the Tate next July-August).

Post by **Relfy** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:11 pm

Oops. Anyone notice I can't count?

Post by **Gareth** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:26 pm

Hmmmmm.... welll.....

MoT chappies tend not to like holes in sills, or near cross-members. Oojammies, they're a bit flexible on, but it depentds. ;)

Where there's holes, there's money... The holes need sorting first, either plating, or much much better, cutting out and new panels letting in. You have got 10 months before the MoT's up, but it's best to get it sorted as and when you can.

Price - if you're getting someone to do it, think of a price and double it. That generally works for me. If you're doing it yourself, think of a time-frame and double it.

Water?? Wiper spindles, bonnet hinges, the hole in the floor... any holes in the rear wings - could well be trickling through.

Value - how shiny is the paint? It probably makes a difference! However, she's your car, and I'm sure value wouldn't come into it. I'd imagine Condition 2, but I doubt she'd pass an MoT because of the holes... However, I panic easily!! I've spent more on Phyllis than I bought her for, I'm sure, and probably (although don't tell Mr. Barclays this) probably more than she's worth, but she's Phyllis and I couldn't imagine life without her.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:36 pm

Hi there
Can't really tell much from those teeny photos but
1) the drivers side spring hanger looked dodgy (maybe just a bad photo)
2) the bottom of the chassis leg looked split - was that the edge of a plate? (or maybe a bad photo) 'oojamy'

The rust ould do with cleaning up with a stiff wire brush ( a lot of work) and then some decent paint.

The brake pipes are... the small metal pipes that come from the brakes (sorry ;-) ). The fuel pipe runs from the middle of the petrol tank along the middle of the car and up to the petrol pump - all the other pipes under the car are the brake pipes. They tend to rust more at any point that collects mud, and you need the car up on wheel ramps etc.. to get a really good look at them.

Post by **Relfy** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 1:04 pm

Value - how shiny is the paint? It probably makes a difference! However, she's your car, and I'm sure value wouldn't come into it.

You're quite right Gareth, She is and I wouldn't give her back! On the other hand I know the guy quite well who I bought her from (last week), and I'm not sure he was aware of the problems, or if he was he didn't tell me, which would have been mean, and I would be surprised.

I'm too skint for immediate repairs (lots of time, no money!) - So it would be quite alright, and worth my while, for me to go back and talk to him about it. (I was quite specific with my original questioning). He might even want a piece out of the garage who MOT'd her. I'd need to do it soon though.

Condition 2 ranges from £500 - £2200. I payed £1550, as she runs very nicely (for an old girl), and I trusted him about the condition and had the recent MOT cert to back him up, but now I'm not sure. Thats a very large price-range, and I wondered what the mmoc thought.

The paint is shiny. Well, it does me. ;-)

Post by **Pyoor_Kate** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 1:09 pm

Is there any chance of some bigger copies of the pictures?

It's a little difficult to see too much from the smaller ones.

The holes in the sill are probably something you want to get sorted, ideally by cutting out / welding in new metal as a replacement. And the spring hanger/s probably want to be checked over.... and repaired if necessary.

And I'm with Ray on the whole "clean up the rust, and paint it", although being lazy as I am I'd go and get a wire-wheel and do it with a drill....

And expect someone's got a shot of the underside. They seem to have photos of every conceivable part of the car. If not then I'll take a shot of the underside of mine for you (Yay for digital cameras!)

Don't worry, mog's can always be fixed, Rebecca was a shining example of what not to look for when buying

Post by **Multiphonikks** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 1:30 pm

Well, I've noticed at least two good things:

It doesn't LOOK like anyone's put horrid panels on the floor pan. Which if you do decide that the rust isn't superficial and needs tackling by replacing sections of floor you know you're not going to have to deal with pannels on pannels on pannels...

co-incidentally, what are the door gaps like (between the door and the body?) If they are nice and even all around then at least if the floor has been tackled in the past it means no-ones managed to get it out of allignment like on Hebe...

Oh, and the other thing that's good is that unlike Hebe, it looks like you don't have tons of underseal on there... I am dreading removing it all... Underseal hides all sorts of terrors...

From what I can see (as everyone else said, it's pretty hard with those size pictures) you should be able to get a fairly good idea of what needs doing....

And no, No wood between pannels! (It's a saloon not a traveller!)

Nikki

Post by **Kevin** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 1:36 pm

Exactly how much wood is there as there should be none

Post by **Pyoor_Kate** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 1:41 pm

Having had another look, it looks like someone'smade a wooden shim up to increase the gap 'twixt wing and body. Perhaps to get the panel gaps to look neater on a cheap glass fibre wing?

Post by **Relfy** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:14 pm

There are 4 more pages on which I can put bigger pictures. Which would you like? I've put a better picture of the chassis leg and the spring hanger so far...

Sorry I can't get this camera to focus closer than 0.5m.

The holes at the fronts of the sills - They were covered with (so-rusty-cardboard-like) panels with no drainage holes or anything. Is that how it should be? It seems strange to me as any water that gets in cant get out.
The rear sills have obviously had new panels put in, in the same way - and these are beginning to show signs of rust too, though they look new.

Post by **Cam** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:16 pm

Sorry I can't get this camera to focus closer than 0.5m.

Does it not have a 'Macro mode'? as most digital cameras do now.

Post by **Relfy** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:20 pm

Unfortunately its my dad's and he's hidden the destructions. I only have symbols as clues to go by... Its a sony and i've been using an option that gives a flash and spot mode, to try and focus on the point in question.

If 'Macro-mode' is a big 'M', then it gives spot-mode to 0.5m but no flash.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:33 pm

Well sooner or later you're going to need a drivers side chassis leg as that's quite a big plate-over. As the leg is full of rust the repair was not done well (they should cut out all the old metal as the old rot actls like a sponge and makes the new metal rot away 5 times quicker). And the spring mount looks in a poor state.
However these 2 pictures look like they are up to MOT standard so can't say much more than that.

At approx £1500, that's quite a normal price for a car with nice paintwork.

Post by **Relfy** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:35 pm

Exactly how much wood is there as there should be none

Its a little strip of ply behind the rim just where the wing is bolted on - yup like a spacer between body and wing.

Post by **Relfy** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:05 pm

co-incidentally, what are the door gaps like (between the door and the body?) If they are nice and even all around then at least if the floor has been tackled in the past it means no-ones managed to get it out of allignment...

Now I'm paranoid! I've put some big pics on the site for you to have a look at. There's also quite an amusing pic of the passenger side-window.... um... Yes. I reckon I should do something about that - not entirely sure what?!! (Strangely its not that side thats got the rust problem). I reckon on closer inspection I should try changing all the window rubbers. Is that a small fortune?

Post by **Gareth** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:20 pm

That last picture is the quarterlight - it could just be that the hinge is out of alignment - or that the bottom hinge (by the catch) has broken down, but how you would fix that....

The problem with the door could simply be alignment, and adjusting the hinge might solve it. However - a big test is to open the door, and try and lift the back of it. Get an assistant to watch the hinges very closely for this. If the door moves it is probably one of three things:

The hinges are loose. Solution: tighten 'em.
The hinges are worn. Solution: fit new hinges or recondition the old ones with larger pins to take up the slack.
The A-post is flexing. Solution: cut it out and fit a new non-rusty panel. That's a common, but unpleasant job, I understand.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:03 pm

The door alignment is a common problem and probably because it was aligned with the wing at the top (fibreglass ones are often undersize and need to be packed out)
If the door is too far in at the front top, it will stick out at the lower rear.
As for the holes in the floor.. I would guess the window rubbers leak adn maybe the door rubbers too.

As for the quarterlight it looks like someone has fitted a stainless one so either the hinges are not matched (there are at least 2 types of top hinge and you don't want to mix them up) ot that the glass has been fitted badly into the surround making it distorted. Either way I think the quarterlight is a smaller issue than the rest.

Post by **Relfy** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:06 pm

Is the 'A-post' the post the hinges are on? You can see the bottom-end of it poking out of the holes in the front of my sill?

.... I'm beginning to get a sneaky suspicion the whole problem is these nasty little bits of wood....

Post by **rayofleamington** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:08 pm

Quote:

Exactly how much wood is there as there should be none

Its a little strip of ply behind the rim just where the wing is bolted on - yup like a spacer between body and wing.

Wood packing is extremely common when fitting fibreglas front wings as they are usually undersize in width at the door edge.

Post by **Relfy** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:52 pm

That's ok. Ray can you look at my website in a mo? And give me feed-back on the last page? I need to know if my hunch is a load of tosh or not....

The first pic shows a small amount of rust bubbling through the top of the panel under the inner wing, inside the cab, behind the card (do you get me?) - driver's side.

This seems to me a hard place for water to get to from leaking windscreen rubbers (they seem to be silicon sealed anyway) ... so i was wondering if the wood between the wing and body is holding water against the A-post (I'm guessing this upright section is the A-post since I've had no answer yet) and causing it to rot. That would explain the state of the sills below that section, both sides.

The second pic is a small hole I've found, passenger side, in the upper part of the A-post just under the corner of the wing, where a teeny bit of wood is sticking out. Its not very clear, sorry, but I've labelled it.

*sigh*

Am I being very imaginative? Please tell me I am.

Here's my link again so you dont have to keep changing pages:
http://dollymorris.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/