no spark

[jmaster78]

Hi all, i'm not much of a mechanic so some advice needed, can't get my engine to run, my 1098 doesn't produce any spark when i hold a plug to the engine and turn it over, and the alternate condenser (silver tube/can thing) is roasting, any ideas would be welcome! thanks

[MarkyB]

At least power is getting that far, if you leave the ignition on for a while and the points are closed stuff will get hot naturally.

Be careful when holding spark plugs and turning the engine over, the spark may go through you which will result in expletives.

Turn the engine over and observe the points closely, do they open and close? we are talking about the thickness of a bit of card here.
Has anything been done to the car recently?

[mike.perry]

No spark at the plugs so check all the HT leads are secure on the plugs, in the distributor cap and the coil.
Check the carbon brush in the top inside the distributor cap, it is on a spring and if you push it in it should spring out.
Is the points gap correct, if you flick the points open there should be a faint spark. If not are the wires to the points in the correct place and insulated correctly, is the small wire connected to the terminal on the side of the dizzy and is the LT wire from the coil connected to the same terminal? Do you get a spark when you pull the LT wires off the coil?
You did remember to fit the rotor arm?

[bmcecosse]

As the others have said - we really need to know if this has happened suddenly - has any work been done on the engine - was it working fine yesterday, and then today it just won't spark ?? Or has it been lying unused for some time - and is now being resurrected.

[jmaster78]

Hi thanks for the replies, i bought the car off a guy who half stripped it 5 years ago with the intention of restoring it. He gave up so I took it on, not much of a mechanic but would like to get it running before i do the bodywork. someone told me it culd be a bad earth? does anyone have a simplified wiring diagram as the one in my manual is double dutch to me and there seem to be a few wires hanging loose in the engine bay!

[MarkyB]

There should be 2 wires to the coil, one of which will be from the distributor.
The wires should pretty much fall into position, even if the haven't been attached for ages.

There may be a very large spade connector with a normal one alongside, these will be for the dynamo.

One more for the oil pressure switch which is just behind the distributor.
Don't worry if there is another wire, often in a plastic tube that goes nowhere.

[LouiseM]

A wiring diagram is here:

http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=28295

And there's some advice about starting a car after it's been standing for years here:

http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f= ... t=standing

[chickenjohn]

No spark and very hot coil sounds very much like the coil has failed due to an internal short.

Replace coil with a new one (the big silvery cylinder as you describe it) and the car will run.

Best thing you can do though is join your local branch and ask a friendly expert to have a look for you!

Another idea- the AA are good at getting cars started, if you are a member of the AA or RAC and have home start, phone them up. Even if they can't get the car started they will tell you what parts need changing!

Another good idea- buy an old Haynes manual for the Minor and buy the clubs workshop manual (written by Rob Thomasson) these will help you learn about mechanics and get a feel for the Minor, and the old Haynes manual also has wiring diagrams.

[LouiseM]

No spark and very hot coil sounds very much like the coil has failed due to an internal short.
Replace coil with a new one (the big silvery cylinder as you describe it) and the car will run.

The OP didn't describe anything as a 'big silvery cylinder' he said:

the alternate condenser (silver tube/can thing) is roasting

So I don't think it's clear whether it's the coil he is referring to or the condensor

jmaster78: it might be helpful if you could post a photo of the part which is 'roasting' or describe it a bit better. How big is it?

Instructions for posting a photo are here:
http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=31197

As already stated, try contacting your local branch. If you post your location we can let you know where they are and give you some contact details.

[bmcecosse]

I was rather wondering what an 'alternate condenser' was......... - possibly a flux capacitor???? At least if it's getting hot -the wires must be connected to it! It's 'never' the coil, so don't rush into buying another just yet. Most likely the points are stuck shut/horribly corroded - so my suggestion is to check/clean them and then try again! And of course - don't even try to start an engine that has been lying for 5 years without putting oil down the bores, and winding the oil pressure up on the starter motor (plugs out) first. In fact though - it will be easy to get it started, but repairing the bodywork/chassis will not be so easy. I suggest you survey the complete car VERY carefully before spending any money on it, so you know what lies ahead and can work out how much it is likely to cost.......

[MarkyB]

Where do you live?
There may well be someone nearby who will have a quick look and give you advice.

[jmaster78]

hi all, it's definitely the coil, already ordered a new set of points, condenser, leads, cap, and rotor arm. don't know if this will help but can't do any harm, will fit them before buying a new coil. I live in Northern Ireland so will put on a post and see if any members are online! thanks

[jmaster78]

hi all, have added a picture of the part that heats up, however i fitted the coil off my spare minor and it started to heat up too! that coil is older than the original one so may also be knackered, but it could be something else? thanks[frame][/frame]

[chickenjohn]

You could have two faulty coils? Old parts of a spares car come with no guarantee.

See if you can borrow a new or known good one. Get a friend from your local branch to lend you a known good coil.

Unless you have something drastically wrong with the wiring, then no spark and the coil getting very hot points to a failed coil.

[jmaster78]

when i held a spark plug against the block and turned it over there was a spark initially but after the first spark that was it. there are brand new plugs in it so they can't be the problem? i'll try and get a new coil within the next week!

[bmcecosse]

It's NOT the coil - why does everyone fascinate about coils ??? The fact it's getting hot shows current is flowing - because the POINTS are shut!! Gap/clean the points - or better still fit new ones and a new condenser. Check the 'Low Volts Lead' too.....

[jmaster78]

the points are free but closed as the car sits?

[bmcecosse]

Well they will be shut most of the time - they only open briefly as the cam on the dizzy shaft rotates. They are closed to charge up the coil/condenser pair for far longer than they are open to discharge the energy as a spark at the plug!

[jmaster78]

have now replaced the coil, points, distributor cap, rotor arm, condenser, plugs and leads and still no spark has anyone a really really simple diagram for the wiring going from the battery to the distributor and coil incase something isn't connected up? many thanks.

[bmcecosse]

You need a lead directly from the battery to the coil +ve terminal - and then a lead from the coil -ve terminal to the dizzy, Simples!