Minor Diesel?

[chrisd87]

One downside of LPG is that the only reason it's cheap is because it's subject to a much lower rate of tax. I would worry about this tax break being removed in the future by a government looking for an easy few quid. Domestic LPG fuel is available though...

A small, lightweight, economical, simple (non-turbo, pushrod, mechanically fuel injected) diesel engine of modest power (say 50ish bhp) would be a nice thing to have in a Minor, but sadly I don't think such an engine exists. Therefore I'm going to stick with the A-Series I know and love!

[MarkyB]

Good point about the tax break on LPG, but why "non-turbo, pushrod "
OHC turbo diesel engines were around without common rail what's the problem?
I'd say the move from diesel=cast iron, or later, to when they'd sorted out the problems this turned up would be the one to aim for.

[chrisd87]

I say pushrod because most OHC engines (until recently at least) have had belt-driven camshafts, which means you have to replace the belt every few years. OHC also makes cylinder head removal more of a faff. Non-turbo, because a turbo is another expensive thing to go wrong! I am a bit of a luddite when it comes to car tech

[chrisryder]

diesel might give you a bit more economy, and longer service intervals than a minor. but how much will it cost to buy the donor engine/vehicle, carry out all the necessary work, buy another minor or other everyday car to drive while you're doing the conversion, taxing, insuring and maintaining the other car while you're doing the conversion?

i've not done the maths, but i'd imagine it'd take a very long time for the benefit to outweigh keeping what you've got.

[Matt]

depends what you want - but I think you should be able to a diesel conversion in a long weekend for less than £300...

[AntB]

am i allowed to make another post about what a completely pointless exercise this is, both the diesel aspect and the wvo part?

list of things you need:
minor
suitable engine. the 1.5td from a poxall corsa is probably the best idea as they're unburstable and easy to come by. or the 1.7d from a astra/ corsa/ vectra as they're the same block, just stroked out and good for 60mpg
a suitable transmission
all the associated engine mounts/ bushes and electrics
somewhere to store all the wvo
a filtration set up

most importantly a supply of wvo.

this is becoming harder and harder to come by as the cost of fuel goes up and more and more people dip into the idea of veggy motoring. what these people then do is start collecting from a local business and then eventually let them down, meaning said business has to go back to a collector who they have to pay. this then ends in an exercise in expense for said business.

once you have the wvo, you then need to de- water and filter it and then work out how you're going to get rid of the enormous amount of food waste that also comes with the collection. and no, you can't tip it down the drain.

ask yourself a question; how come i seem to know so much about this subject?



or, you could fit a decent a-series lump with a good fuel set up and a decent five speed or o/d four speed gearbox and get 50mpg+?

edit: and that way you'll also avoid running on diesel

[bmcecosse]

You're the only one interested in messing about with wvo AntB.......... I raised the thread to create discussion - and if a cheap and cheerful small diesel became available to me locally - I would give it a try - but burning vvo only and not messing about with twin tanks etc. But as i said earlier - I do believe that LPG on a 948 (or even an 848) will give the very best economy. ANY of these mods are obviously only worthwhile if doing decent miles . But some folks do use these cars everyday and the cost of petrol is not going to get any cheaper.....

[MarkyB]

AntB, do you have a particular dislike of diesel?
Why aren't you on the fitting a Rover V8 to a Minor thread saying what a pointless exercise that is?

We tend to like a bit of a challenge, you might as well say why bother with all the aggro of running an old car, just go and get a nice little hatchback.

[AntB]

my daily driver is a diesel, there's nothing wrong with it, it's just an appliance*.

i haven't seen the v8 engine thread. i assume it's along the same lines as a post i saw on the board for another car i've had; a vx220. question being "how do i fit a rover v8 into a vx220?" another utterly fruitless exercise, taking an engine out of a car that was designed in the 1990s and fitting an engine from the 1950s which has less power output and more weight, with less fuel economy.

bottom line is that an xud engine, or similar is going to be a massive PITA to fit. and (you can check this out by seeing how many of the 1.4s on fleabay are advertised with this problem) will have head gasket issues. or you can pick another diesel and play the game of match the transmission. you'll probably be fairly safe with a ford diesel as the type 9'll likely fit, but after all of that you have a car with an engine in that really only has one upside (and a good few downsides) putting out maybe 10mpg more than just fitting an o/d box on your 948/ 1098 with substantially more cost. oh good grief, can you imagine the noise on start up on a cold morning?!

the most sensible money would be a tall final drive and a decent gearbox. if you want to really go to town on squeezing the maximum mpg out then you could start to old skool tune the head or fit fuel injection. that'll cost way more, but you'll likely see your money back far quicker than you would with a diesel conversion, unless you have an infinite amount of time on your hands to piece all the bits together. then you're in the realms of having another car to run around in whilst you're doing the work. more expense.

KISS principle ;)

there's little wrong with an a-series.

*it used to run on 100% bd when i used to do more miles. the daily driver before than was a 1.5td corsa on 100% wvo or svo and before than a 1.4 106 which ran just on dino, which did up to about 74mpg, but was probably the most horrid car i've ever driven. thankfully someone wrote it off before i had it more than a few months. with that car i rebuilt the top and bottom end as the car body was in great nick, but the engine smoked like mad.

[bmcecosse]

I've tried the modded A series head and high final drive ratio - I get 30 mpg if I'm lucky. At that rate - it won't be going far this summer! But I do realise the diesel is not a drop-in - and my thread started by asking if anyone had done the conversion - so I could pick their brains as to just how difficult it is. There is a Minor van in central Scotland with a VERY successful diesel conversion - I understand it goes very well indeed and is economical too. But it' s big capacity diesel - and I'm very willing to sacrifice performance for even better economy.

[AntB]

I've tried the modded A series head and high final drive ratio - I get 30 mpg if I'm lucky.

my type 9 gearboxed 1340 with a 3.7 diff used to regularly see 50mpg+ on mways.

yes, it's fair to assume from the fact it was a 1340 that it got driven so it wasn't my driving style that saw the mpg rise ;)

[MarkyB]

I get 30 mpg if I'm lucky.

So the modifications made it worse?
What mpg where you getting before?

My (ex) wife was getting 30mpg or less in a 2CV, there is a certain (useless) skill in getting terrible mileage from one of them.

[bmcecosse]

My 30 mpg is measured accurately - with a dead accurate odometer, but of course it gets thrashed....... I have extreme doubts about a Minor doing 50 mpg - even modern 'slippery' cars with ultra efficient lean burn/fuel injected engines and low rolling resistance tyres won't do that - I know -I've tried....... I do know how to drive economically - my current TDCi is doing 61 mpg on the computer, confirmed with brim to brim checks. If I could get a Minor to do that - I would be quite happy!
And yes - I had a 2CV in the past - used for 6 summer months to travel 40 mile round journey to/from work - almost always with the excellent roof open, and driven foot to the boards - and it managed near enough 40 mpg! It was a superb car - but then winter came along and the heater was useless......so it had to go.

[dp]

That's odd, I found the 2cv heater worked fine. Did you use the radiator muff and were the cardboard tubes in good shape?

[bmcecosse]

Errr - no and NO! I loved the car - would have another if i could find one at the right price - but oh dear - it was just deadly miserable in the scottish winter.Part poor heater - part terrible draughts around doors/windows and roof. The screen was frozen on the inside - and wouldn't defrost at all.........

[dp]

I had one a few years ago as my daily & regret letting it go. They go for silly money now. For the good of the engine as well as making heating work better in winter, when temp gets down to (I think) 4degC you put a plastic cover over the front grill and it makes a massive difference to temperature in the car. This was with leaky roof and the various gaps. Don't know if it would work with Scottish levels of coldness though.

Did your have disc brakes or drums?

[MarkyB]

I used to do the first services on 2cvs, people always complained about draughty doors.
The cure was simple, put your knee in the middle of the door and bend the top in a bit.

Nothing much to go wrong with the heater unless the pipes come off.
It should give heat fast too as it comes from the exhaust.

[chickenjohn]

My 30 mpg is measured accurately - with a dead accurate odometer, but of course it gets thrashed....... I have extreme doubts about a Minor doing 50 mpg - even modern 'slippery' cars with ultra efficient lean burn/fuel injected engines and low rolling resistance tyres won't do that - I know -I've tried....... I do know how to drive economically - my current TDCi is doing 61 mpg on the computer, confirmed with brim to brim checks. If I could get a Minor to do that - I would be quite happy!
And yes - I had a 2CV in the past - used for 6 summer months to travel 40 mile round journey to/from work - almost always with the excellent roof open, and driven foot to the boards - and it managed near enough 40 mpg! It was a superb car - but then winter came along and the heater was useless......so it had to go.

50 MPG is unrealistic for a Minor. However, I do regularly get 44-45 MPG on a long run. A lot is down to the driver. Roy, you need to trade in the lead boots for a pair of slippers and that will save you a fortune!

[charlie_morris_minor]

My 30 mpg is measured accurately - with a dead accurate odometer, but of course it gets thrashed....... I have extreme doubts about a Minor doing 50 mpg - even modern 'slippery' cars with ultra efficient lean burn/fuel injected engines and low rolling resistance tyres won't do that - I know -I've tried....... I do know how to drive economically - my current TDCi is doing 61 mpg on the computer, confirmed with brim to brim checks. If I could get a Minor to do that - I would be quite happy!
And yes - I had a 2CV in the past - used for 6 summer months to travel 40 mile round journey to/from work - almost always with the excellent roof open, and driven foot to the boards - and it managed near enough 40 mpg! It was a superb car - but then winter came along and the heater was useless......so it had to go.

50 MPG is unrealistic for a Minor. However, I do regularly get 44-45 MPG on a long run. A lot is down to the driver. Roy, you need to trade in the lead boots for a pair of slippers and that will save you a fortune!

also dumping half the spares and all the tools will save weight and contribute to better MPG

[bmcecosse]

But then I would have breakdowns.......