Ignition says No

[hannahandflossie]

Hello all - hope you can help me with my Series II Flossie.
I went to start her up the other day but when i turned my key the ignition light/fuel gauge/oil light did not come on. Starter pull is ok. I have done the following;

Charged battery
Checked contact points in distributor - all seem ok
Checked fuses (and tried new ones)
Checked pipe from carburettor to fuel pump when starter pulled - no fuel comes out
Dismantled fuel pump - cleaned contacts checked filters, wires etc.
Put fuel in tank (!)

Now im starting to think maybe it's the ignition switch? is there a way of detecting this ?(obviously without getting new one)
Or perhaps it IS the fuel pump and that perhaps mine has really died?

I am learning so please keep things simple !!

[rayofleamington]

if nothing comes live when you turn the key, then fusebox, live connections and ignition switch could be the answer.

First question -
does anything work with the ignition off? (horn, headlights etc..)
If not then your live connections from the battery are duff.

If that's ok:
Does anything work with the ignition turned on? (wipers / flashers / heater etc..)
if nothing works then most lilely will be the live circuit that goes via the ignition switch (at any point including the switch)

If some things (other than horn and lights) work when ignition is on, then the switch is ok and the problem is elswhere in the wiring.

[MarkyB]

Did the battery actually charge up ?
Did you check the acid level, if possible?
Also how old is the battery, also how long might the battery have been flat for?

If you have the cap type battery connectors held by a screw you need to make sure all contact surfaces are very clean, even better replace them with the clamp type.

[hannahandflossie]

Hello - thanks for the replies

Battery was new last year and she only started up and was ok less than a month ago
Engine is turning over but not firing, like it's not getting any fuel. I took off the hose linking carburettor to fuel pump - and when engine was turned over no fuel left the pump....
I've tried the headlights and they come on ok - not tried wipers or horn as yet.

[mike.perry]

Turning the engine over will not deliver any fuel. The fuel pump is electric and will suffer from the same problems as the other electrics.
It sounds very much like a fuse problem as the headlights (and sidelights?) work because they are not fused.
The horn and interior light should work with the ignition off, they are on the permanent live fuse.
The fuel pump (you should hear it ticking), wipers, trafficators, stop lights, coil, heater, fuel gauge should work with the ignition on, they are on the ignition fuse.
Check the power to the input side of the fuses, the white wires and the brown/blue wires or if your wiring is like mine before I rewired it, all the wires were black!

[bmcecosse]

The fuelpump and Ignition circuits are NOT fused - so your idea that the Ign switch may be faulty is good. However - could just be a loose connection. When you switch on Ign the red light MUST glow and you should hear a burst of ticking from the fuel pump. No point trying to start it until you get these functions working.

[beero]

Can you get hold of a test lamp? If you can we can tell you where you ought to be testing.
Also what year is it? Helps to select the right wiring diagram.

[rayofleamington]

Aha - it turns over! With that in mind, you diodn't need to check the lights, as this proves the battery is ok and well connected. Also don't worry about checking the horn (although it never hurts to check).

As mentioned by one of the other posters, the horn and lights are not fused and not switched by the ignition. Some of the items (also previously mentioned) are switched by the ignition but not fused. Others are switched by the ignition and are fused.

I'm also thinking that the 'ignition-live' feed through the ignition swithch is not working - however if some of the switched circuits do work that would be ruled out!

Therefore if you can check "everything" and report back it may help.

Personally I'd guess either the ignition switch is not making contact or a wire has come off the back of it... Have you done any work in or near the dash recently?

[hannahandflossie]

Hello again

Thanks for all the replies - horn ok (hoorraah!) but wipers and heater say no. She's a 1956 (its nearly her 55th birthday) model and the wiring is some original and some modified - all the more fun to deal with!

I've had a good look behind/under and contorted myself under the dash and there aren't any loose connections i can see. I did wire in a heater back in October time but she has been used regularly since then so don't think ive knocked anything..

Sent the boyfriend out with his multimeter to check out and all wires seem ok. He DID comment that in his opinion (he's not one of us..though he does talk sense...occasionally) the ignition looked worn and perhaps key wasnt turning properly. So im guessing perhaps it IS the switch and might be worth trying a new one. Have checked ESM - they have what looks like just key & barrel to fit all models at £4.95 and also Ignition Switch (Early type pull start less the key) soldout at £17.95 - will i need the both of these? I also saw Ignition switch key start £9.50 and then wondered would it be that tricky to change to an ignition switch key start? (more to the point IS there any point?!!).

ho hum - poor Flossie

[bmcecosse]

You can fit a key start switch - and just not use the 'start' feature. But check first - take the switch out and join the wires at the back (should be brown (actually - not sure about that!) and white) to see if that brings on the ignition.

[Neil MG]

It's easy to swap your barrel into a new (lots of good used on ebay) switch so that you can keep the same key! Assuming that you only have the one key for ignition, door and boot.

[rayofleamington]

BF and multimeter was a good start, but a multimeter can give misleading results - if he can use a bulb test circuit (20W bulb on some leads - with croc clips on the ends if you want to be flash) you'll know if the live is really live.

It certainly sounds like the only things that don't work are everything that is switched by the key - that does lead you to looking at the lock. It's worth to check it has a live input and no live output before doing anything with it.
First of all try some switch cleaner in the contacts, or if you can't get that, try WD40.
If that doesn't work, pull the back off the switch and see what's wrong and try to 'adjust' it to get a temporary repair (or bypass it with a 20A switch).

[hannahandflossie]

Afternoon People,

Well.... i've removed the switch - and whilst i was working out how to do this without a 3rd hand i noticed a wire close to back of the switch not attached -aHAAAA - and when it touched some metal - sparky spark ! good i thought - it's alive and kicking !

Removed and dismantled switch and had a good look inside - all seemed ok but sprayed with WD40 and gave a clean. After exposing a bit of fresh wire on the 2 wires coming to the switch i joined them together....but the ignition did not come on.

hmm.

Surely if there's live coming to the ignition and that wire had after all come loose from the switch then this is the problem? but then why didn't the ignition come on when i attached the 2 wires together?

Help !!

[mach2]

This may sound weird but when the light switch broke on my 1955 moggy me and my dad tried to bodge it to get home by twisting the wires together. we got all the lights working but then the ignition stopped working because the light switch is part of the ignition system or some thing thing like that so maybe try checking the back of the light switch if thats ok then how about checking if theres a spark. Best of luck.

[beero]

You should have 3 wires on the ignition switch. A brown blue which should be live on one terminal, and 2 whites, one going to the ignition lamp and one going to the live side of your fusebox on the other terminal.

[bmcecosse]

Ahh yes - 'brown blue' is the feed wire (not brown as I unsurely suggested) and it comes to the IGN switch from the control box - so check the wire at both ends.

[hannahandflossie]

Hello all

She's going ! Wahooooo ! exposed a bit more fresh wire on the ignition wires, and there was a choc box with some rather loose connections.... had a wiggle and hey presto.
tightened up the connections and made sure all contacts are good - ignition switch back in and we're all systems go !

learnt alot along the way - only way to learn - thanks to all who helped me

i hope one day i know a bit to help others !!

[bmcecosse]

Well done - best advice will be to lose the bit of 'choc block'......