Fin did a dumb thing... *Rust help needed*

[Fingolfin]

So...hi guys...this is embarrassing...

Some of you may recall that I recently replaced a chassis leg (and did a damn fine job of it, might I add) -- but, um...there's a problem now, three weeks after it's fitted...

The inside is rusting.

Apparently I forgot that shipping paint isn't the best anti-rust primer out there...and didn't prime it before putting it on...

That's obviously no big deal for the bit that's accessible, up to the eyebolt, but what can I do forward of that? And under the floor on the inside? I'll grant that I would rather not drop the leg again, but if I must then I must.

etc.

Full disclosure: the car is sitting outside, under an awning but outside, and there's been quite a bit of rain recently. Also, it's mostly open to the elements. Nonetheless, if it can't stand a few weeks open, how will it stand fifty years closed?

[chickenjohn]

Fingolfin,
I always remove the transport paint with thinners and paint with zinc primer, weld the panel on, then apply chassis black through a clean schutz gun lance via the drain holes, then a few days later, apply the cavity wax.

My cavity wax of choice is Dinitrol 3125. Too late to paint now as surface rust has started.

Take your car to someone who has a schutz gun and a compressor and get them to inject a few litres of Dinitrol 3125 into the chassis leg. That should do the trick!

[MarkyB]

Don't beat yourself up about it, It's called paint isn't it?
With the gearbox cover off you can access all the inside of the chassis leg, you can see most of it.
The rust isn't going to be established, just on the surface, Dinitrol 3125, Waxoil or your favourite flavour of waxy greasy creeping stuff will seal it off from water and oxygen and stop the rust in it's tracks.

[Fingolfin]

Hmm, okay. I had hoped there'd be a way. From what I've read, this Dinitrol stuff is marvelous -- but I'm fearing it's not easily accessible in the United States. Do you suppose it'd be importable? I know BM and ESM say they won't ship paint outside EEC.

Would you advise purchasing the 'schutz' gun and some dinitrol (if indeed I can), and doing the application myself?

I know Waxoyl isn't freely available to the average American. There's a chain of specialty shops on the East Coast that apply it, but that's on the East Coast, and I'm in the Midwest. I dearly want some, though! That chain is here: http://www.waxoyl-usa.com/. You'll notice at the bottom of the page, "NO PRODUCT SALES TO PRIVATE INDIVIDUALS." Google says some people make homemade Waxoyl knockoff.

There's a product available in the US called Zero Rust (http://www.zero-rust.com/), has anyone tried this? Also, POR-15 appears to be available here (in fact, the website says they're based in New Jersey!).

[bmcecosse]

I would spray the leg with a phosphoric acid 'rust killer' first, and let it dry for a few hours on a warm/sunny day - then spray with any anti-rust treatment. There must be readily available waxy/oily stuff - surely! I see Canadian Tire sell 'black asphalt under coating' - and yes I realise you are not in Canada! What would be your equivalent store to CT ??

[Fingolfin]

Hmm. I'm gonna go with one of the 'marts' on that one, Wal-Mart or Kmart or somewhere like that. Wal-Mart has a large auto section, usually. But the funny thing about WM is you go in to get something and come out with everything but what you needed...most of the time because they didn't have it. I'll give them a try, though, when I'm next in one.

I have spray cans of rubberized undercoating from Rustoleum, and it's quite good -- to be used on the underside, supposedly. But I didn't figure I could spray into the front of the leg.

I'm in complete agreement that there must be something LIKE Waxoyl! I thought you could get any product in America... But I've talked to people in the trade (mechanics and the like), and they're always somewhat dumbfounded by the idea.

[chickenjohn]

Hi Fingolfin,

contact ESM/ BM and see if they can ship Dinitrol 3125 to you in the states.

Cheers John

[moggydriver62]

You might try .www.por15.com.They have some very goodrust
preventatives,sealers etc.They are in new jersey.
kenny.

[PeteC]

Can I suggest you get in touch with Bilt-Hamber? I believe they will ship their products to the US. The cavity wax they produce is called Dynax, and although I have yet to use it I can certainly vouch for the rest of their range being excellent.

Their website is http://www.bilthamber.com. Good bunch of people there too.

[Fingolfin]

Thank you all so much for your helpful suggestions!
BM said they won't ship it because it's flammable -- so packaging would be nightmarishly expensive. Not heard from ESM yet.
I've considered POR15, but don't know much about it -- has anyone had experience with it?
This Deox-C stuff by Bilt-Hamber looks fantastic: a kilo makes 20 liters of rust remover liquid, and it's biodegradeable and non-toxic, and only £12 plus shipping. Anyone try that stuff? The Dynax product also looks of use. I may just go on and order it up.

If you have any further suggestions, don't be shy!

[chickenjohn]

Thank you all so much for your helpful suggestions!
BM said they won't ship it because it's flammable -- so packaging would be nightmarishly expensive. Not heard from ESM yet.
I've considered POR15, but don't know much about it -- has anyone had experience with it?
This Deox-C stuff by Bilt-Hamber looks fantastic: a kilo makes 20 liters of rust remover liquid, and it's biodegradeable and non-toxic, and only £12 plus shipping. Anyone try that stuff? The Dynax product also looks of use. I may just go on and order it up.

If you have any further suggestions, don't be shy!

Don't buy Deox-C. It is just citric acid sold in a Bilt Hamber labelled bottle! Brilliant legal rip-off!

For £20 you can buy 5Kilo's of Citric acid including postage (look for brewing and cosmetic supply websites and Ebay).
Citric acid is fantastic at removing rust but is really for small items and is most definitely not suitable for spraying inside your chassis legs! The biggest item I de-rusted was the bottom few inches of the inside of a Minor door in the bath! But I then dried the inside of the door, to remove all citric acid, treated the bare metal surface with phosphoric acid to stabilise it and then painted with zinc primer before later welding the lower door skin repair piece on. This is not practical inside a chassis leg as you could never immerse the whole leg in the citric acid for 24 hours and cannot reach inside with your hands to phosphate and paint by hand.

Citric acid is also an excellent de-greaser, so spraying the stuff inside the leg will make your rust problems even worse!! Greases and oils protect steel from rust. Citric acid removes rust by dissolving it as Iron Citrate, but it has no rust inhibitive properties for steel, unlike phosphoric acid which stabilised the surface before paint.

5% Citric acid solution takes up to 24 hours to dissolve all rust, but you need to dry and protect the surface immediately or flash rusting will occur very quickly to the bare metal. So, not suitable for inside your chassis legs.

Really, cavity wax spraying is the only practical way you can preserve your chassis legs- and get the car under cover!!!

Ask a motor spared shop for "Cavity wax", look up Dynax, which comes in a spray can complete with lance.

[Fingolfin]

Aha! This is why this topic exists, CJ! So you can keep me from making more dumb mistakes!

No Deox-C then. The 'C' is a dead giveaway now I think about it...but good news! I think ESM will ship Dinitrol. I'll still need the little lance-schutz-gun thing, though, because ESM can't ship the aerosol overseas.

Should I look for some phosphoric acid? You say it 'stabilizes' the surface of the steel.

Off to the auto shop I go, for cavity wax...

[Declan_Burns]

I think the restriction on aerosols is from the airlines-so it might be possible by snail mail but could take quite a while. I don't think there is such a restriction on tins if they are deemed non-hazardous.
Regards
Declan

[Fingolfin]

I discovered how the water was coming in! Haven't got the rust killed yet, but this is a start. My battery box has some holes in it, and water collected in the box and dripped in! Some surface rust started on the new floors, and a tiny puddle inside the chassis leg.

So now there's a lovely big waterproof sheet of plastic across the engine bay, secured as well as one could manage.

In three weeks I go home again, and by then I'll have some Dinitrol 3125 (and my dad SAYS he'll have got as much of the rust gone as possible). 3125's only a cavity wax, though, so won't kill the rust. Would you advise any specific rust killer product? BMC advised phosphoric acid, which I understand converts surface rust into iron phosphate. How about Dinitrol's own RC800?

Or should I just look for a tub of phosphoric acid? Or is it so, perhaps, that I don't NEED to kill the rust, but just wax over it?

[fussyoldfart]

I did a little browsing on this subject and found this link: - http://www.britishcarforum.com/bcforum/ ... d/1#import

It's worth reading, there's some suggestion that Moss has Waxoyl and there's also a couple of recipes for making it.

Have fun and don't sweat a bit of surface rust unless you plan on preserving the car for the Smithsonian. If you have done good work the car will probably outlive you.

Darrell McDonald

[MarkyB]

As long as the rust is covered it shouldn't get any worse as it's the oxygen in the atmosphere that's causing it.

This doesn't mean you can stop the rust on any old rot box using wax because keeping the air off is a lot easier said than done.