Copper brake pipes - a warning!

[Dryad]

Yesterday morning I was driving my wife to work (with our 3 year old son) in our '62 Minor which we had only bought at the end of June with 13 months' MOT when a potentially fatal event occured. As I approached a junction I could see a car waiting to cross and, as often happens when people see a Minor approach, they pulled out causing me to apply the brakes sharply. As I said, this seems to happen often, probably because some modern car drivers seem to think that we can't go above 30mph, so I am always cautious, but on this occasion I was alarmed to find the brake pedal rapidly sunk to the floor. Fortunately, I have a very good handbrake so I was able to avoid collision. After getting the Minor home I discovered that brake fluid was leaking from around the t-junction on the rear axle. This is why; the previous owner had replaced a section of brake line with copper brake pipe, and although I had heard that these are illegal in New Zealand because there is a danger they could fracture due to vibration causing metal fatigue, I had never actually seen or heard of it happening, until now. So, I have replaced the offending piece with good old reliable cupro-nickel pipe and I shall NEVER use copper brake piping again.
Here's a photo of the fractured pipe.[frame][/frame]

[simmitc]

Difficult to tell, but it doesn't look like a brand new piece of copper, and the union certainly isn't new. I wonder whether it is a re-used piece of pipe that twisted when the union was either undone or tightened? Copper pipe has been used by many people for many years without incident - not saying it never fails, just that there might be a good reason for the failure. Glad to hear that you're all OK.

[mogbob]

Dryad

I sure the event left you all " shaken and stirred " ,contemplating what might have been.Somebody up there was obviously
looking after you.
My youngest Grandson is three, so the tale is quite relevant.
Please you are all safe and well.Lumps of metal can be fixed easily, it puts life in context.

Bob

[bmcecosse]

I suspect a lot of the 'copper' brake pipe that is sold - is in fact Kunifer. But yes - that broken piece looks much the same as the copper pipe that fell off in my hand some years ago shortly after I bought it.. All kunifer now ! Well done avoiding the accident - was it Friday 13th by any chance ??

[Dryad]

It was Thursday morning now I think about it, so not the 13th! Glad to say it's not put any of us three off using our Minor.

[katy]

I'm not familiar w/Kunifer and am wondering if it is visually different than copper?
The reason I ask is that I ordered a new section of brake pipe from B M and it appears to be copper and I don' think that copper is legal here.
I could take the fittings off it and buy steel line locally if need be. Double flaring the ends is not a problem.

[bmcecosse]

Kunifer is more of a dull grey/bronze colour. I'm sure you would get it locally! It's very common for brake pipes.

[chickenjohn]

Difficult to tell, but it doesn't look like a brand new piece of copper, and the union certainly isn't new. I wonder whether it is a re-used piece of pipe that twisted when the union was either undone or tightened? Copper pipe has been used by many people for many years without incident - not saying it never fails, just that there might be a good reason for the failure. Glad to hear that you're all OK.

Yes, I agree, it does look like the pipe was damaged in the past by being twisted if the pipe had stuck to the union when being undone. But I also agree that Kunifer is much better than copper for brake pipes.

[Dryad]

This was the piece that runs from the t-junction on the axle to the N/S wheel, and was secured along the axle with two cable ties - the sort which an MOT examiner would slap on in a hurry just to get it through an MOT. I'm wondering if it had been driven around for a few months before the cable ties were put on, being wobbled around and causing metal fatigue at the joint. The pic is slightly misleading as the pipe had fractured about three quarters of the way round , and the rest snapped off when I unscrewed the union.

I suppose the message here is; if you fit new brake pipes, copper or otherwise, always make sure they are secured properly and that there is no chance the pipe runs will be able to wobble with the vehicle's movement.

[M25VAN]

I wonder about the securing points on the axle as the rear cylinder moves up and down a fair distance. Maybe securing too close to the wheel end and a bend too close to the union will exagerate bending of the pipe and cause premature failure . Kunifer is the way to go.....

[surfergirl]

Slightly worried reading this as all my pipes are copper, from either Bull motif or local garages. Where do I get Kunifer pipes?
When I purchased my van 20 years ago it had metal pipes that were going rusty, so they have been replaced as needed with copper pipes over the years. The Morris is on a single system brake set up which does seem to need a good handbrake!
Glad there was no smash, it has made me think of the hill down to the local beach, think Ill be checking my brakes!

[aupickup]

well looks like i have a full set to sell now of copper brake pipes

[bmcecosse]

The various countries that have 'banned' copper brake pipes - have done so for good reason - not just for fun! Take this seriously folks!!

[Dryad]

Glad to see this is having a positive effect on thoughts of safety. So...that was my last Thursday's near-fatal event, now read about today's!!!! See http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34296

[RobThomas]

Someone was asking about Copper and Kunifer. In this shot you can see the colour difference. Copper at the bottom just before I cut the end off to flare the union onto some Kunifer pipe[frame][/frame]

[RobThomas]

And my solution is to give it a little room to move and a coiled section to allow it to flex without there being any section too far between supports, if that makes sense. Also leaves a little bit extra so that you can unfold the end and re-flare if it should break by the roadside. Any opinions?
Not really so much coil as to make brake bleeding a problem.
Still waiting for the new drums and slaves to arrive from ESM[frame][/frame]

[bmcecosse]

Hmmm - I never thought to carry my brake pipe flaring gear with me - maybe I should - along with all my other spares and tools........

[Kevin]

Where do I get Kunifer pipes?

Well any motor factors should sell it I use my local Partco (unipart) and it was £12:50 for a 25ft roll earlier this year, there should be one near to you as they have a couple of hundred branches.
Assuming you are down west here is one branch
Partco Autoparts Ltd
Penryn, Cornwall TR10 8
01326 372 651

[Alec]

Hello all,

apparently copper brake lines were standard on most cars until WW2, when copper became very scarce.

Alec

[surfergirl]

Does anyone know where these pipes are avail.? Doh! that ll teach me to only quickly scan posts. Ill check that out.
Thanks