Escort axles

[GeorgeHurst]

Hello,

I've decided to convert to Ford 4x108 PCD all round on my Minor. I'm going to either redrill the front hubs (Escort based disc kit) or get some new Ford PCD hubs from JLH. I'm in a bit of a quandry about the rear hubs though - being that they're square I don't think they can be redrilled, so it looks like I will have to get some PCD converters made up.

I'm just thinking though that it might be sensible to upgrade to an escort axle now also - this will give me the Ford PCD, stronger half shafts and a lower diff ratio. So, can anyone tell me exactly what models of Ford have axles that can be used on a Minor?

Am I right in thinking that Escort, Cortina and Capri (Mk1 and Mk3) all had the same rear axle which can be used on the minor springs without modification (except of course buying the u bolts from JLH)

I'm going to trawl the local scrappys so need to know which cars to be asking for.

Cheers
George

[GeorgeHurst]

Oh, and I forgot to ask... propshaft... can one use the minor prop or do I need to take an escort prop and a minor one to a shop to have them cut and shut together?
Cheer, G

[MartinB]

From memory the normal Ford english axles fitted to Minors are the Escort (mk 1 & 2), the Capri versions are wider, the mk1 Cortina and Anglia ones are shorter but I think can still be fitted, I seem to remember seeing a Minor fiitted with the Mk1 Cortinal axle with 7" rims under standard arches a long time ago.

I think the mounting pads will need cutting off and welding back on in the correct position on any of them you choose. I'm sure Jonathon at JLH would know for defininate but, of course he has been banned from this forum (bl**dy stupid move if you ask me).

Propshaft flange would at least need to be changed for the correct one to mate to the diff, if the prop is too long it would need to be shortened as well.

Hand brake mechanism is also different but I seem to remember you can get some longer cables to suit the conversion from that banned place!!

[charlie_morris_minor]

As i understand things the mk1 and 3 capri axles will fit on the same mounting points as the moggy but the mk1 will fit with pug wheels inside the minor body work, however the mk3 is just that little bit too wide, even when fitted with mondeo wheels that have a very large offset they stick out by about 1inch. no idea about the mk2 capri..

[Kubla]

Only the Mk 1 Capri axle and Escort Mk11 axles will be the correct width for the Minor.You can fit Peugeot,Ford, or Saab wheels straight on , but may have clearance issues at the front unless you shim out the wheel.
JLH do a fitting kit for the Escort axle which should fit the 70mm diameter Capri unit too. He's a really freindly chap so give him a call if you need the low down on what and how too.
Better to fit the Escort axle George rather than modify the minor one, as you say better brakes, choice of diff, and stronger axle.


Kubla

[GeorgeHurst]

Thank you all for the replies.
I think I'll probably give JLH a ding on Monday to get the final word on the axle - I'd sooner get one that fits with a fitting kit rather than have to reweld the mounting points as even though I've now had a bit of practice with my new MIG I don't trust my skills for a part that's going to have lots of torque exerted on it.

Not too fussed if I have to shim out the front wheels as I can fit some arch flares (which I would like to do anyway really) and am planning on making some custom wide rear wings from fibreglass so that I can accommodate some wider wheels and a custom light set up.

Oh dear... I'm getting carried away... originally I was just going to drop a standard 1275 in, now I'm planning on porting the head, tuning the engine, balancing it, making custom bodywork, fitting non standard axles and disc brakes! ahhhh! Time to flog off every spare I can lay my hands on!

Cheers
George

[charlie_morris_minor]

well if you are going with a wider wing then the capri mk3 axle is a possible option and the mounting points are the same as the moggy.. If i recall correctly the escort axle does need the mounting points changing. but you have identifed the man you need to talk to on monday..

[GeorgeHurst]

Cheers Charlie, I'll have a word with Jonathon on Monday and see what he says.
My neighbour has a milling machine and has made PCD converters in the past so it may work out cheaper as a temporary measure to go down that route, and then go for the Escort axle when I find one for the right price locally - most on ebay seem to go for well over £100 and are rarely within collection distance.

[charlie_morris_minor]

i do not think that escort axles will ever go below the £100 mark..so you are probably better off biting the bullet now ( it is very easy to spend someone elses money )

[callyspoy]

regards to your wing ideas, i have JLH front and rear, 2 inch wider at the back, flare on the front. as ever, very well made and look the part.
of course, custom is always more personal than buying off the shelf, but it's so much easier to fit the bits that others have made!!

[GeorgeHurst]

haha, quite right Charlie! Going to see what the scrappy's throw up, but if not it'll have to be on Ebay - always so bloody far away though, and my only car is off the road and currently without a front end!

Callyspoy, I saw your pics of the front wings, look reeeeally nice, I can imagine JLH also make them extremely well. I quite like the idea of going through the whole process of springing a mould myself and making them wings 'unique'. I'm thinking I will probably flare both front and rear, rather than widen the rears... but after a day of working on the car I am now (probably very stupidly) considering making a flip front too! Can't make up my mind though if I want to keep steel panels so it's a 'real' car, or to go down a very custom route... I suppose the steels could always be refitted if stored correctly...

[bmcecosse]

I strongly advise AGAINST use of 'PCD converters'.

[GeorgeHurst]

Hi Roy, I figured they might be a potentially risky thing to use - could you elaborate as to why you advise against them?

[bmcecosse]

Because of the way they work. Difficult to make them strong enough/accurately centralised - and they will push the tyre contact patch centreline way outside the normal road contact position - so when you turn the steering - instead of the contact patch swivelling on the road - it will be forced to run round in an arc. This makes the steering heavier - and makes the car very twitchy under braking or on rough surfaces - and of course increases tyre wear dramatically too.

[GeorgeHurst]

Right you are, thanks - the increase in track (if that's the right term) had occurred to me and I thought it might be a problem. I'm coming round to the fact that it looks like a much more sensible idea to go down the escort axle route... bound to last longer compared to the Minor axle when I put the 1275 in. Fingers crossed I can find something in the scrappy within my budget...

[charlie_morris_minor]

Because of the way they work. Difficult to make them strong enough/accurately centralised - and they will push the tyre contact patch centreline way outside the normal road contact position - so when you turn the steering - instead of the contact patch swivelling on the road - it will be forced to run round in an arc. This makes the steering heavier - and makes the car very twitchy under braking or on rough surfaces - and of course increases tyre wear dramatically too.

on the first point i agree, however on the second point i do not agree, if you get a wheel with a different offset you can bring the contact patch to the normal driving position in relation to the wheel bearings

[bmcecosse]

Yes -IF you get such an inset wheel - that would indeed put it right. Actually (slightly off subject) - I reckon the 936 wheels will push the contact patch out too far........... The 917s are made as they are for v good reason!

[GeorgeHurst]

Would using the wider capri axle therefore create the same issue?
Also, I am going to see my mate with the milling machine tomorrow to talk about redrilling my hubs to 4x108mm, the hub studs have a splined end if I recall correctly - does one just drill a slightly undersized hole so that these act as 'grip' for the stud? I'm presuming I can just use the standard Morris studs, any idea what size hole I should be going for anyone?
Cheers

[charlie_morris_minor]

Would using the wider capri axle therefore create the same issue?

not that much provided you get wheels that match the axle and the problem is not as acute on the rear as they are kept in a straight line compared to the body work and therefore the stress is not so great

Also, I am going to see my mate with the milling machine tomorrow to talk about redrilling my hubs to 4x108mm, the hub studs have a splined end if I recall correctly - does one just drill a slightly undersized hole so that these act as 'grip' for the stud? I'm presuming I can just use the standard Morris studs, any idea what size hole I should be going for anyone?
Cheers

you will need to use a stud suitable for the wheels you wish to fit or you will need to end up using sleeve nuts..so find the wheels you want to fit and buy the appropriate studs for those wheels and as for what size yes they need to undersized but no idea by how much

[GeorgeHurst]

Thanks Charlie, that seems like a logical way to go. Thanks for the info, G