Temperature gauge sensor question

[bjm38]

Hi all,

We've had our car for just over a week now - the journey home from Millennium Motors was "interesting" to put it mildly. No servo + brand new brake shoes = virtually no brakes at all!!

Anyways, my question is this - where exactly is the tapping for a temperature gauge sensor on the 1098 engine? I've looked around the thermostat housing and nada...

I promise to stop asking stupid questions really soon now.

TIA

Bernard

[PSL184]

It is on the head directly beneath the casting to which the top hose attaches to. Are you sure it is a 1098 as 948's didn't have them.....?

[bmcecosse]

And - new brake shoes should have given you 'terrific' brakes - you really don't need a servo on a standard car - unless you have problems with leg strength of course. These cars were driven by 'little old ladies' and District Nurses! You should easily be able to lock all 4 wheels at 20 mph on dry tarmac. Of course - if it is a 948 car - it will only have the smaller front brakes- but should still be fine for a stop - they just start to fade more easily than the later larger brakes.
As PSL says - there is a hex head plug on the 1098 cylinder head - just below the thermostat housing, same side as dynamo/alternator - in fact just above it - that's where you can fit a temperature gauge sensor.

[Declan_Burns]

You can see the location on the photos below.
Regards
Declan[frame][/frame][frame][/frame]

[bjm38]

You can see the location on the photos below.
Regards
Declan

Hmmm, cheers Declan (and PSL184) - mine's got to be a 948cc then. The paperwork I have includes an invoice for an unleaded head from about 5 years ago, could it potentially be a 948cc head on a 1098cc block?

The car was bought in good faith from a Morris Minor specialist as a 1098cc, so I wonder where I stand? Mods, please feel free to edit my first post in this thread if you're uncomfortable with names being named.

Thanks

Bernard

[bjm38]

And - new brake shoes should have given you 'terrific' brakes - you really don't need a servo on a standard car - unless you have problems with leg strength of course. These cars were driven by 'little old ladies' and District Nurses! You should easily be able to lock all 4 wheels at 20 mph on dry tarmac. Of course - if it is a 948 car - it will only have the smaller front brakes- but should still be fine for a stop - they just start to fade more easily than the later larger brakes.

You've really got me worrying!! I don't know whether the brakes have actually improved since I picked the car up or it's just that I've become accustomed to the servo-less system. I would say that the braking effort needed to stop is about on par with a modern car with the engine off, so push bloody hard and she will actually stop. The mechanic at the garage did fore-warn me about it.

As far as I can tell, the car IS a 1965 model year Minor 1000 going off dash layout and trim at least. The other bugbear I have is a rather "optimistic" speedo which I've put (in my mind) as being down to a tired spring.

Pot Noodle break over, back to the grind...

Bernard

[bmcecosse]

A 65 car should be a 1098 - look down the side of the block - otherside from where you hoped to find the temp gauge hole - low down. If there is a little plate that says '1100' then it's a 1098 - if however no plate - and '950' is cast in the block - then it's a 948. The engine number also tells the tale - should start with '10' if a 1098. The head cannot be for a 1098 if it has no hole for a gauge. Take the rocker cover off and look at the top surface of the head casting - should be 12 G 202 on a 1098. Some 'cheat' by fitting a 998 Mini head on - the later ones of these were said to be 'unleaded'- but in fact all that was done was to fit harder/better exhaust valves. That head will strangle the power of a 1098 - in has smaller inlet valves and is less well gas flowed than the correct 1098 head. However - I believe all the 'unleaded' Mini heads had the temp gauge hole - so it's probably not that. The head casting number will tell us - look and see!!

[bjm38]

Thanks BMC,

I'll probably do that at the weekend if I can source some AF and Whitworth spanners & sockets. In the meantime, I've found that the car belonged to a former forum regular, Dom. I've PM'ed him in the hope that he can shed some light on what engine was fitted to the car, not that that tells us what's in the car now.

It's nice to see that the car belonged to an enthusiast!

Bernard

[bmcecosse]

You won't need any spanners to peer down the side of the block - just a bright torch!

[bjm38]

You won't need any spanners to peer down the side of the block - just a bright torch!

No sign of any tags. All I could see was this:[frame][/frame]

Am I looking at the right bit of the block? (Lopes off back to the dunce's corner...)

Bernard

[PSL184]

It does look like a 1098 engine - The "950" would be cast into that round flat spot behind the downpipe and I can't see any signs of it (not got my glasses on though)
[frame][/frame]

[bmcecosse]

Yes - that's the right bit to look. So no '1100' tab - and nowhere I can see where it may have broken off. And I do see the early cam follower chest covers with the cork gasket - so my guess is that it is a 948 engine. What I'm not sure about is - were all 948 engines marked with the '950' cast in the side - or only later ones ?? A simple check will be to measure the piston stroke. A chop stick in the plug hole - turn the engine over slowly till it reaches the lowest point and mark it - then turn engine till it reaches highest point and mark it again. Measure between the marks.........If 3" it's a 948 - if 3.296" it's a 1098. The measuring doesn't need to be super accurate - you will soon know which it is.

[PSL184]

AFAIK all 948's were cast "950". The picture I posted is from a 1959 engine..... Do we know the engine number in question?

[bmcecosse]

Oooh well - if ALL were cast with 950 - then this must be a 1098 - or an 848........ But the cork gasket side covers are still there - and I'm pretty sure these changed to the rubber gasket and different shape side cover when the engine became 1098...... Anyway - - now we need to see the cylinder head - to see if someone has fitted a 948 head (or a Mini head) to it !

[hotrodder13]

my old 1098cc had cork gaskets on the side, and it was 1966 but had unleaded head

[bmcecosse]

Well - perhaps the rubber gaskets came along later. I'm really not sure. Certainly - that block was made when Minis were in production - because it has provision for the dowel (in the flange) that locates on the Mini box - but is of course not used in the Minor. The chop-stick stroke measurement will tell all!

[bjm38]

Yes - that's the right bit to look. So no '1100' tab - and nowhere I can see where it may have broken off. And I do see the early cam follower chest covers with the cork gasket - so my guess is that it is a 948 engine. What I'm not sure about is - were all 948 engines marked with the '950' cast in the side - or only later ones ?? A simple check will be to measure the piston stroke. A chop stick in the plug hole - turn the engine over slowly till it reaches the lowest point and mark it - then turn engine till it reaches highest point and mark it again. Measure between the marks.........If 3" it's a 948 - if 3.296" it's a 1098. The measuring doesn't need to be super accurate - you will soon know which it is.

I don't have too many qualms about taking off the rocker cover to check serial numbers, but whipping off the cylinder head to shove a chopstick down a bore.....?

I've had another look at that round flat on the block, it appears to be blank.

Bernard

[bjm38]

Oooh well - if ALL were cast with 950 - then this must be a 1098 - or an 848........ But the cork gasket side covers are still there - and I'm pretty sure these changed to the rubber gasket and different shape side cover when the engine became 1098...... Anyway - - now we need to see the cylinder head - to see if someone has fitted a 948 head (or a Mini head) to it !

Here's the bit of cylinder head that should have the temp sensor tapping:[frame][/frame]

Would a 948 head actually go on a 1098 block? If it did, then what effect would this have?

Bernard

[bmcecosse]

Yes - it would - and would seriously strangle the performance. I don't suggest taking the head off - just pop out a spark plug and drop the chop stick down the hole, so it sits on the piston - check it's long enough so it doesn't disappear before you let go - but anything over 6" will be fine.

[billlobban]

I don't suggest taking the head off - just pop out a spark plug and drop the chop stick down the hole, so it sits on the piston

Last time I did this I broke the chopstick and had to take the head off