Up the Down Monocoque

[Fingolfin]

Circumstances around Mog are rapidly shifting.

For those of you who are unfamiliar with Mog, my '59 two-door saloon needs the right-hand chassis leg, center crossmember, floors, and rear spring hangers replaced. I've ordered all those parts and received them, and taken Mog to a trusted frame guy -- who gave me a quote of more than my total worth for the past ten years. (That is, $3500, before frame alignment. At current exchange rates, that's £2340. I'm made to understand that it's reasonable, but I just can't afford it.)

So I'm going to put in some or most of it myself, with dad's help. (I have no welding experience, though my father has some with a big arc welder. I'm very willing to learn.) I can't decide what I need the mech to do, though, and what I can do.

So questions: should a person with little knowledge of welding be working on a monocoque frame? How do I disassemble it, in what order, and how do I reassemble it? Which parts should I leave to the mech?

I know this is a tricky one and detailed, too, but I really need the help -- I'm not sure where to begin and I'm starting to get that loss-of-resto-ambition syndrome I've heard so much about!

[billlobban]

I'm in the middle of a rolling restoration myself which includes lots of welding. I would recommend that you become quite proficient at welding prior to starting your repairs. There is no reason why the amatuer can not rebuild a Minor (I am). Buy a MIG get hold of lots of scrap steel of the appropriate thickness and weld. Maybe there is someone around who can help teach you the basics - rocket science it is not. once you have got the hang of it then you are ready to start. Lots of stuff on the net (you-tube etc) for some basic info. You might want to start with a couple of books Morris Minor Restoration Preperantion Maintenance by Jim Tyler and the Haynes Morris Minor 1000 Restoration Manual
Best of luck

[chickenjohn]

Circumstances around Mog are rapidly shifting.

For those of you who are unfamiliar with Mog, my '59 two-door saloon needs the right-hand chassis leg, center crossmember, floors, and rear spring hangers replaced. I've ordered all those parts and received them, and taken Mog to a trusted frame guy -- who gave me a quote of more than my total worth for the past ten years. (That is, $3500, before frame alignment. At current exchange rates, that's £2340. I'm made to understand that it's reasonable, but I just can't afford it.)

So I'm going to put in some or most of it myself, with dad's help. (I have no welding experience, though my father has some with a big arc welder. I'm very willing to learn.) I can't decide what I need the mech to do, though, and what I can do.

So questions: should a person with little knowledge of welding be working on a monocoque frame? How do I disassemble it, in what order, and how do I reassemble it? Which parts should I leave to the mech?

I know this is a tricky one and detailed, too, but I really need the help -- I'm not sure where to begin and I'm starting to get that loss-of-resto-ambition syndrome I've heard so much about!

First of all, you need a Mig welder and not an Arc welder to rebuild your Morris.

From your description, it sounds as though the whole of the underside needs replacing, in which case, that restorers quote was quite reasonable. A car that has that amount of rust will almost certainly also need some work done to the inner wings and sills. I would suggest removing all the wings to see how much work is needed to the inner wings. Restoring the inner wings is a great place to start as it is easier than the spring hanger as chassis legs. Also, remove the sill covers and have a look inside the sills to see if these need replacing as well. Both the sill covers and wings unbolt.

I have done a partial body rebuild on my Traveller and a full body rebuild on my convertible. In the case of the traveller, i started with one inner wing, and after restoring this area, i had the skill and confidence to replace sill pieces and spring hangers.

before starting all this, though, you need to learn to Mig weld. A great place to start is to read the excellent tutorials on this site:- http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/

As for spring hangers, I did a guide for a friend who had simmilar work to do, from photos of my convertible restoration.

have a look here -rear spring hanger http://homepages.gotadsl.co.uk/%7Ejgm/e ... hanger.htm
front spring hanger http://homepages.gotadsl.co.uk/%7Ejgm/e ... hanger.htm

from this
to this

I started as a beginner at restoration, like yourself and my view is if I can do it, then so can you!

Don't get overwhelmed by the project (I sense this is starting to happen). Concentrate on one small piece at a time and gain satisfaction from each area repaired and before you know it the car will be solid and back on the road again!

[MarkyB]

Treat yourself to an automatic welding mask.
Few things are more frustrating than doing a lovely weld, 2mm from where you wanted it.

[bmcecosse]

Yes - it is do-able but will take time. One piece at a time ! Dad will love to get back into welding......... And resolve now to NOT give ANY of it to the 'mechanic' ! Main thing is to preserve the door frame openings at all times - so take some measurements (and lots of pictures) and note them down before starting - and keep one door on so you can check side to side all the time.

[Fingolfin]

Thank you for the wonderful responses...I'm becoming bolder with each one.

CJ -- it sounds like I may've misrepresented myself -- I'm not a terrible amateur to structural stuff (though you're right in that it's recently new to me ). I've given Mog a VERY good look-over, and tapped (or stabbed) most of it with ball-peen hammers and screwdrivers. Ah, and we have the arc welder but it's WAY overpowered, so we're going to procure a smallish MIG from a place called Harbor Freight. (I think.)
I've bought all the parts and repair-panels necessary (except the L/H chassis leg needs some around the tie-plate -- are the half-length legs desirable for this?) and have stripped the car right down to the shell, except the windows, doors, and bootlid -- the sill covers, wings, bonnet, etc., are all off, and the engine, gearbox, interior, fuel tank, and prop shaft are all off too.
How does one go about straightening the front inner wings? I know how to weld on patches, I think, at least conceptually, but I believe they need straightening.
Your spring hanger tutorials are wonderful!

What's the distance between the two front inner wings at top and bottom? And the distance between the two chassis legs? Could be very helpful...I do believe the frame isn't straight. Any other essential measurements you could think of, too?

Pictures are my forte, BMC -- I've been doing it all along! And Marky and Bill, the mask and books are wonderful ideas -- dad owns a mask but it may not be the automatic-dimming kind, and I have the Haynes manual, but not the Tyler book. Shall procure it!

So I start with the inner wings, then have a go at repairing the sills? (I've got a repair section for the front half of the driver's side sill.) And then the spring hangers? The biggest stuff should come last, then. Makes sense.

[bpr81a]

Treat yourself to an automatic welding mask.
Few things are more frustrating than doing a lovely weld, 2mm from where you wanted it.

Been there, bought the mask!

[billlobban]

The best of luck - let us know how you are progressing

[alex_holden]

What's the distance between the two front inner wings at top and bottom? And the distance between the two chassis legs? Could be very helpful...I do believe the frame isn't straight. Any other essential measurements you could think of, too?

At the top, the best thing to do is to trial-fit the wings, bonnet, front panel and bumper, and make sure they all fit together nicely. The chassis (frame) alignment is more critical. Try sending alainmoran a PM as I believe he has a rare book with some useful diagrams in it.

[Fingolfin]

The front end fits together correctly (except that one of the bumper mounts points upward a bit, so the bumper doesn't want to mount right), but the bonnet is in rather poor shape, so I fear it may distort my perception. If it's off much, however, it's pretty close.

I went to a local farm and home supply shop and looked at their MIGs -- a nice Hobart for $350, on sale for $220! Deal! Buying it tomorrow, and looking around for a self-dimming helm and gloves.

PM sent to Mr. Moran.

[chickenjohn]

Make sure you get a gas mig and not a gasless one!

Some pics of the car would be good as you dissassemble it.

[alainmoran]

[ASL642]

Brilliant! Many thanks Alan. A friend was saying today that he could do with the measurements. I'll send him them.

[Fingolfin]

Have now procured a nice MIG...last day of the sale, and we got one of the last ones. Lucky! Great pictograms! But they don't say the distance 'tween the chassis legs, do they?...would someone with a properly-aligned saloon mind measuring for me?

[bmcecosse]

The torsion bars are fixed to the chassis legs - so use that dimension!

[RobThomas]

Just a thought, but couldn't you buy a shell in the UK and get it shipped to the US for less than the cost (inc panels, paint, tools, materials) of rebuilding yours? IIRC you can get an entire car sent for as little as £600. Surely there are a lot of empty containers from UK companies importing cars from dry states to the UK?

[Fingolfin]

Interesting suggestion, Rob, but I've not time or money for such an endeavor...the parts and MIG have already been bought for this. I'm fairly well locked in.

Aside from the philosophical consideration, the upper part of the shell is fine -- it's just the underside that's no good (I promise), and it'll be replaced soon. So, practically, a new shell would be overkill.