Riley 1.5 brakes

[Ondergard]

My friendly local classic-friendly garage are fitting some Riley 1.5 brakes to my Morris. The slave cylinders are seized and need replacing.
I've managed to source some rear wheel slave cylinder bodies (my garage will have to re-use the original pistons) and offside front slave cylinders (complete) but I can't find a nearside front wheel slave cylinder.

It's a Girling D4 slave cylinder, part number 390314 I'm after... I don't suppose anyone on here has either got a source for one, or better still got the relevant slave cylinder they are prepared to flog?

[alex_holden]

Have you tried Earlpart?
http://www.earlpart.co.uk/

[Ondergard]

Funnily enough, after I'd posted the OP, I found a reference to Earlpart, and phoned... Phil Green, on the other end of the phone says, "Yeah, no problem... we've got those! How many do you want?"

This, after another supplier tells me that they are as rare as hen's teeth, and I'll have trouble sourcing them, whic prompted my original post!

It turns out that Phil Green is a Methodist as well, and is good friends with people I know! Small world, ain't it?

So, job done - and thanks for the reply, Alex!

[bmcecosse]

Oh well - you would get a good discount then!! let us know how you get on with the R brakes - some have reported they make the pedal very heavy. But you should have amazing stopping power!

[Ondergard]

Oh well - you would get a good discount then!! let us know how you get on with the R brakes - some have reported they make the pedal very heavy. But you should have amazing stopping power!

Now he tells me!

I'm only fitting Riley 1.5's on your recommendation, as opposed to discs which you don't like - make your mind up, Brian!!

[PSL184]

Oh well - you would get a good discount then!! let us know how you get on with the R brakes - some have reported they make the pedal very heavy. But you should have amazing stopping power!

Now he tells me!

I'm only fitting Riley 1.5's on your recommendation, as opposed to discs which you don't like - make your mind up, Brian!!

Noooooo - We like Wolseley brakes

[alex_holden]

I think the Girling brake system on the Riley 1.5 is designed to operate at a higher hydraulic pressure than the Lockheed systems on the Wolseley 1500 and Morris Minor. There was a thread some time ago where we discussed in detail the merits of R1.5 vs W1500 with standard slave cylinders vs W1500 modified to use (slightly larger bore) Minor cylinders. Presumably the Riley's master cylinder had a smaller bore and/or the pedal had more leverage. The Riley brakes should stop well but you'll have to push harder on the pedal. Or you could add a servo...

[bmcecosse]

Aye - it's the Wolseley brakes that I LIKE! But don't despair - just build up these leg muscles by running up and down a few Welsh Hills! I'm sure you will be fine - and you will have superb stopping power.

[RobThomas]

Hmmmm. Smaller bore master cylinder. Any thoughts? Wouldn't be too hard to fabricate something to go in there and even to make a cradle for a modern cylinder that bolts through via the original holes.
I only ask since I have a set of Riley brakes here with a complete set of new slaves.

[bmcecosse]

Wait and see the report from Ondergard - the brakes may be ok ! Did early cars not have smaller master cylinder bore anyway ?

[alex_holden]

Wait and see the report from Ondergard - the brakes may be ok ! Did early cars not have smaller master cylinder bore anyway ?

No, early Minor master cylinders have a slightly larger bore.

[RobThomas]

I was thinking along the line of a Tilton single cylinder in a welded frame that bolts into the chassis rail and has a remote filler.

[plastic_orange]

Riley brakes do give a heavy pedal, but are pretty sharp with a servo - perhaps too sharp on first application in the morning .
I did however notice a huge difference in stopping power when I moved over to discs, plus no fade.
Wolseley brakes in my opinion will be just about adequate for spirited motoring in a standard car - doesn't say much for the standard Minor set up really - fade city
Cue bricks

Pete

[bmcecosse]

Not managed to get the slightest 'fade' on my Ws so far - but I suppose it depends how 'spirited' the driving is! And of course - I don't have a V8 engine! I don't see why a replacement cylinder wouldn't work - but it probably won't have the little seal that maintains a back pressure in the system - to minimse pedal travel after the first application.

[Ondergard]

Ok, update....

all the cylinders on the Riley brakes I bought on E-bay and off the For Sale board here were seized solid, so I had to source some more. Apparently, Riley 1.5's cylinders were made by Girling, and Wolseley 1500 by Lockheed. Needless to say, it turns out that the Girling cylinders are are rare as rockinghorse MY FAVOURITE CAR IS A DATSUN CHERRY (yes, I know....!).

However, a friendly call to Earlpart in Derbys gets me the whole lot, front and rear, for the Riley 1.5's - they have a box of new old stock. They arrive in double quick time at my garage.

This morning I call in. The front brakes have gone on beautifully, but the rear cylinders don't fit. When the old cylinders are removed from the back brakes, they are made by Lockheed...! So it looks as though I'm going to have Riley 1.5 brakes on the front, and Wolseley 1500 brakes on the rear.

So, a question... is the braking going to be heavy, or light, O Wondrous Experts of the MMOC?

[alex_holden]

I reckon heavy, and possibly not well balanced (risk of the rear wheels locking up too easily).

[bmcecosse]

It may be a bit heavy - but since you are fitting the larger rear brakes the balance may not be too bad. I have found with the W brakes - and at the moment I only have them on the front - it is down to the linings. One set I have are 'super light' and lock the front wheels far too easily - the other set, now on the car, are 'just right' - with all 4 wheels locking pretty much together provided I push hard - but the braking is excellent without needing to push that hard! You will have even better front brakes + better rears - so the balance could be fine !

[IslipMinor]

Heavy! Might need to consider a servo? Did I read somewhere that Minor cylinders could be fitted to reduce the pedal pressure??

[alex_holden]

Heavy! Might need to consider a servo? Did I read somewhere that Minor cylinders could be fitted to reduce the pedal pressure??

Minor cylinders can be fitted to the Wolseley 1500 front brakes with a bit of modification to the backplate slots and mounting holes (both are Lockheed) but the Riley 1.5 (Girling) brakes are quite different. The cylinders are physically smaller and the adjusters are on the backplates rather than between the cylinder and shoe.