Daily drive... Good? Bad?

[Faceplant]

Hi Dan,

My morris is powered by 2lt twin cam from a fiat 131 super!

Its worth asking around for a reliable local mechanic. Part of the fun for me is fixing things when they go wrong!

try this; http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MORRIS-MINOR-V8-h ... 3cacfa3612

FP

[MarkyB]

How bad is the traffic on your commute?
Some Minors don't cope well with stop start traffic in hot weather and may require some tinkering.

[RobMoore]

There are not many good mechanics around these days that understand older vehicles.
Auto Technicians are not mechanics they are technicians and fully understand the modern car with its complex electronics and stuff but I bet they would be pretty stumped if a classic was placed infront of them. "where do I connect my computer" lol

[MorrisDan]

@ RobMoore..lol i know what you mean!

@ MarkyB My commute is only about 4 miles to work, i live in the Morden area London/Surrey borders most time going into Wimbledon where i work is easy in the morning and evening when i finish is a bit stop start, guess ill have to wait and see once ive bought the Tourer, the one i have my eye on has had a 1275 unit put in it... i think they call it the ital engine? would this make s difference?

[M25VAN]

Think of a trip in a modern car as a journey, a trip in a Minor as an adventure!

[MorrisDan]

love it

[autolycus]

Jonathan touched on another relevant consideration - safety. Everyone's attitude to risk differs, and some will give more weight to the safety of others, such as their passengers, or even pedestrians they may hit.

Would many people disagree that modern cars have, in general, better primary safety? In other words, their brakes, steering, suspension, lights, and visibility (inc mirrors) make them less likely to be involved in an accident than a Morris driven in the same circumstances. The Morris may well be driven slower, which will probably go some way to offsetting this, but 70 mph is 70 mph, however long it took you to get up to it.

There can be little serious argument that secondary safety is much better in a modern car. The Minor is full of sharp edges to lacerate your flailing limbs, has a steering column likely to poke through your ribs, and various bits of structure that weren't designed to absorb much energy even when new, let alone when rusty or badly restored.

It may be low on one's priorities, but I don't think you should completely ignore safety.

As for whether a C4 will ever count as a classic: 40 years ago, who'd have thought a Minor ever would? Or a Silver Shadow? And 50 years ago, when the MoT tests were being introduced ("the 10-year test") no-one drove an old car if they could afford a newer one, so many "old bangers" were scrapped without a second thought. Restoring circuit boards in seat-adjustment ECUs might be interesting, though.

Kevin

[chickenjohn]

I used my Traveller for 12 years as a pretty much everyday car, including driving to work. It shared that duty with my performance modern classic car. The Traveller did this very well, with the exception of the dual carriage way/motorway where the low gearing and low power became evident. My car was also very reliable, needing to be towed home only once by the AA during that time and that was due to a break in the little wire in the distributor. Had I carried one of these £5 wires in my spares box, I would have got home!

I only stopped using the Traveller up to its 5000 mile insurance limit after being in an accident. A modern (late 1990's) VW Polo hit my car on a roundabout, he pulled out on me, I braked, managed to stop the car but he hit my front corner left corner. Luckily, the other driver admitted liabillity and RH were great, along with their legal company. I got the car repaired at ESM for nearly £2k!!! They did a brilliant job. But that is besides the point, the traveller came out of the accident with a bent front wing, bumper and front panel, and a small dent in the inner wing but drove perfectly and the lights all still worked, despite the bent wing and was later fully repaired. I would have preferred to do the work myself but the other driver insisted on going through insurance. He was decent about the whole thing and admitted fault! His car came off worse with a smashed and bent front bumper and broken lights, his car leaving wreckage on the road.

Glad I didn't use the Traveller ove the last winter which was the worst winter in kent for 30 years.

I have to disagree with this statement:-

"Would many people disagree that modern cars have, in general, better primary safety? In other words, their brakes, steering, suspension, lights, and visibility (inc mirrors) make them less likely to be involved in an accident than a Morris driven in the same circumstances. -snip-."

Yes, i would disagree, you are talking about secondary safety. Primary safety is the driver avoiding the accident in the first place by driving carefully and mindfully that you are in a 40+ year old car! Classic car drivers tend to drive much more carefully than drivers of modern disposable boxes, as they are aware their car is irreplacable and are more in touch with the driving experience in the classic, wheras a modern car tends to insulate the driver from the road, dull his senses and lead to a false sense of security and carelessness that causes so many modern drivers to crash.

The Minor may not have crumple zones, but it is made of thicker metal than a modern car (how many moderns have 2mm thick inner sills??) and there have been cases of owners surviving a crash in a Minor where the rescue services declared they would have died in a modern.

OK, I did not avoid the accident in my Traveller, but I minimised the damage by careful driving well within the vehicle limits and being alert and observant and my car at least is back on the road and actually better than it was pre- accident!

I would say go for it! Just make sure you buy a properly restored solid Minor, keep it well maintained and keep rustptoofing the underside and box sections with anu rust wax and you will be fine. And drive it like an old car, not like a modern.

[autolycus]

There's not much point in arguing about the terminology of primary and secondary safety, and yes, I agree that classic car drivers probably drive more carefully - but the fact remains that if a dangerous situation arises - which may not be the driver's fault, and which even the best driver may not have been able to anticipate - a modern car's better handling gives the driver a better chance of avoiding an accident.

On the question of crumple zones and steel thickness, there are a number of features which affect the survivability of occupants in a crash: there must be a protected space which stops the occupants being speared or squashed; and the occupant must not be decelerated too quickly. Thick steel may help to give a strong "cell", but how it's arranged is much more important. There's not much strength in a Minor's doors, or its A or B posts at chest and head height. You could be contained in a 2 inch thick steel box, but if that box stops too quickly, you'll be pulped - I'd sooner be stopped by a hundredweight of egg boxes than a ton of steel plate.

Even ignoring these horror scenarios, which are, after all, rare, even the sort of accident that barely gets a mention in the local rag can have a horrible effect on people's lives. Broken limbs and cuts caused by sharp metal edges, insecure seats and inside fittings, and flying luggage, aren't much fun - and are much more likely in an old car.

Drive as though the horn button was a 10" steel spike.

Kevin

[chickenjohn]

I disagree with your very pessimistic assessment. If you have ever worked on restoring Minor A, B pillars and doors (I have) you will know that they are very strong and made of thicker gauge than the modern equivalent. The doors, for instance, in addition to the inner and outer skins also have a structure diagonally across the door of thick gauge akin to having a chassis leg inside the door. The A Pillars on a Minor are capable of having a commercial vehicle fall on the car and the occupants get out unharmed. This has actually happened and been reported in the papers. So much for your "weak A pillars " argument.

If you are so down on Minors, why are you even here??? Why do you even drive one??? This club and website is to promote the preservation and use of the Minor and not incorrectly write the cars off as dangerous. It is the general public driving in their airbag equipped tin boxes, isolated from the reality of driving that are dangerous.

The biggest factor in road safety, BY FAR, is driver skill and this is where the classic driver has the edge. Primary safety. That is why classic cars such as Minors are by far the cheapest cars to insure on the road. Simply, because they have less accidents than bad careless drivers in modern cars who treat their vehicles like dodgems.

As for handling, the Minor handles very well, OK not as much grip as a modern, but at the speeds the Minor can sensibly attain, the handling is more than adequate. As I said above, I have been in an accident in my Minor, and I certainly do not have rose tinted spectacles, and this accident I would not have avoided in my modern car.

[jonathon]

Not wanting to dwell on the negative aspects of Minor ownership too much, I must say I agree again with Autolycus.
A rigid structure does not always make the safest passenger cell. I remember 5th Gear crashing a 'modern' into a 4x4, The modern looked bad but the doors opened and the occupants would have all escaped free of injury, the 4x4 however was trashed and the front occupants would have been seriously injured or killed.
We have had many folk visit us who work in 'modern ' car design and all have said how poorly the minor would fair in a current crash test .
This doesn't mean that they are unsafe, just that they are miles behind any modern in an accident.
We need to remember too that were talking 40+ year old cars. All will have gone through their bodging or resto cycle, to good or poor standards. I'd say that the majority of Minors on the road today are a mile off the original cars integrity, through rust , fatigue, accident damage and /or poor practice when restored/welded. This is what worries me with quite a few home resto's on this very forum.
I do also accept that a few 'specialist' minor garages also have a somewhat cavalier attitude to correct assembly and techniques involved in a resto, so I'm not being bias against DIY.
I also agree that the cars are reasonable performers if driven as they are 'old' cars. But many owners even in their heyday in 60's and 70's were fitting better suspension, engines and brakes. The latter of which have always been poor.
Todays minor driver does not usually have like specified vehicles around it when on the road, and there is no way that a std spec minor can stop as well as a similar sized 'modern' with ABS, ESP etc etc so one really needs to double your braking and thinking distances, or upgrade the car to give a 'level playing field'.
I'm not being negative towards minors (its not really in my interests is it) but if someone is coming new into minors' be they young or old' they need to know the limitations of this cars safety , use, maintenance, and spares quality before they spend their money.

[Fozz]

Having read all ther comments I do agree with both points of view! I am very aware that my car is not up to modern standards as regards brakes, suspension etc and drive accordingly, as do most classic car owners. I very rarely go even on dual carriageway and my maximum speed is usually a comfortable 50 mph. Overtaking is usually limited to tractors and such like. I have had to do a couple of "emergency" stops, one in town at about 25 mph when two girls dashed across the road on front of me and I stopped with no problem. The other was when I had to brake quickly on a dual carriageway going much faster, and was a more worrying experience, although I did stop in time.
So basically I avoid fast traffic situations, I think that's where the Minor is at a a total disadvantage. Chugging along on country roads and driving around town is absolutely fine.

[Dean]

I'm pretty new to driving my minor and it has taught me how we all stand on our brakes at the last minute. Brakes on cars have got better and better and better. I follow cars who stop on a sixpence all the time in traffic (I do the same in my modern) but compared to my all round 7" drums following.. I come a very poor second.

[dalebrignall]

i think the moggie is a good daily driver ,i use mine a lot,just drive withen the limitations of the car and plan ahead when your driving,ie drive correctally.a few mods are a good thing like lights ,electronic ignition,servo etc.to me thats the whole point of having a morris minor ,you adopt a different methold of driving,the car will cruise at a mile a minute no problem,in the scheme of thing you dont go any faster because of the ammount of traffic,road works etc.lets be honest when was the last time you drove your modern car at 80 /90 mph on a clear motorway for over 60 miles apart from the very early hoursof the morning .

[jonathon]

I suggest we do not answer your last question Dale, PC plod might have a 'mole' in the MMOC

[rsawatson]

I'm a 'younger driver' at sweet 19 and the Minor has been my only car except for a few months after I passed. I have used it every day since, commuted 70 miles a day to and from work, come rain or shine. It has never let me down and I feel so much safer driving the Minor than I have other cars which I've borrowed - you're not tempted to overtake in dangerous spots, you can just bumble along at your own pace.

For more demanding motoring, well, I have had nothing but a positive experience. The Minor easily achieves 70 - 80mph; in the last year I've done 15,000 miles including a trip to Somerset for last year's National (with 2 passengers and a trailer tent on the back), Norfolk and Yorkshire - all from West Sussex.

Maybe I'm biased, but I don't think I'd ever want to change! They are formidable little cars and, providing you're prepared to keep up with the maintenance, they offer you a trouble-free solution. The only snag I would state is that, even when you think you've got it just right for the MOT, there is generally something or other that needs doing (although usually only minor!)

Ryan