Most boring F 1 GP ever ?

[bmcecosse]

Anyone else think today's effort was the most boring GP ever ? Virtually no overtaking - certainly none of any significance, and Hamilton only squeezed by Rosberg by great good fortune in the Pit Lane. If all the races are going to be like this ...... I may need to get a hobby!

[Blaketon]

I don't know that I'd go that far, though it wasn't a very interesting circuit. I think the rules are now completely OTT. I'm in favour of no refuelling but all this nonsense about having to use certain tyres and if you in the top ten on the grid, you must start on your qualifying tyres makes no sense to me. So far as I am concerned, there should be wet tyres and dry tyres (Capable of lasting a race in appropriate conditions) and you do with them what you will.

It was nice to see the name of Lotus, even thought it wasn't the Lotus of old. Just have a look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJDkZYhJ ... re=related.

[alanworland]

Lovely bit of old film Blaketon - gear changes seem to take as long as the sidevalve gearbox!

[bmcecosse]

Crivvens - the ONLY little bit of excitement left now is the need to use both types of tyre. If they didn't have to do that - they would all just parade round nose to tail and finish in the order they left the grid! Heavens - it's near enough that already! Personally - I think there should be a rule that if they are caught up and followed (within say 2 seconds on the road) by another car for say 3 laps - the car in front should be required to pull over and let them by! Obviously this doesn't apply if a string of cars are trailing round behind a slow car (eg Button ) - it only applies to the first car in the string, and then 3 laps later to the next car and so on. And obviously it doesn't apply to the leader! But would apply to 3rd place man if he came up behind the 2nd place man - would give them a chance at getting past the leader for 3 laps - and then they would have to fall back etc etc. Probably quite unworkable - but, how else can we put some life into it! ?
And YES - excellent video of Jim Clark. I like the grass bank edges to the track - perhaps we should go back to that?

[Blaketon]

Maybe that's the answer; bring back the 1 1/2 Litre formula as from 1961 - 65. I like historic stuff and it would be good to see the top drivers in those cars.

I think the cars have outgrown the tracks. They are now taking less time to complete any given straight and so there is less time to get by (And unless they can get close going on to the straight, which they can't because of the down force issue, that only serves to make matters worse). Maybe the Sarthe circuit at Le Mans has a long enough straight (Without the silly chicanes) to allow modern Grand Prix cars to pass....and the bits from Mulsanne to Indianapolis and after Arnage are pretty long and straight too. Perhaps its time to extend Spa back to 8 miles to the lap???? The old Nurburgring had a long, if undulating, finishing straight.

[mike.perry]

I would rather have watched the drivers in the classic GP cars doing a full race distance.

[billlobban]

One of the big problems is how much they have santized the circuits. Huge run-off areas mean if you make a mistake you lose a couple of tenths thats all. Even Spa has become a little boring with the subtle changes they've made even Eau Rouge is easily flat.
I'm all in favour of no fuel stops. I was really fed up with the strategy thing where all overtaking was in the pits. Its called the F-1 World Drivers Championship and these aerodynamic monsters are too easy to drive. Get rid of the wings and bring back overtaking.

[dalebrignall]

it was rubbish over paid glammer boys and no racing ,i think i saw 2 cars overtake i fell asleep,id rather watch the banger boys

[Blaketon]

Whilst I would admit that celebrity culture has tended to dumb down the following for Grand Prix racing, I wouldn't go so far as to call it rubbish. If you can get through and tolerate the crush (Even with a stand seat, you still have to make your way to it), it is certainly not boring when you're there. I don't know that I could tolerate the crowds any more and you always got a more brash type of crowd at Grand Prix than other types of event. If anyone has a mind to go, I'd say go to Spa. Its not that expensive (When I went, you didn't need a stand seat, as there was plenty of room) and being a bigger track, there is more room for the crowd to spread out and I wasn't as aware of the crush.

As to the financial side of it, motor racing has always been expensive, especially at that level (The German teams prior to WW2 spent vast sums). Whether that justifies what is paid to the drivers is a matter of opinion. It would be interesting to know whether some teams are in as much financial trouble as some Premiership football team as a result of large wage bills.

I've never driven a Grand Prix car but I have driven a racing car. Based on my experience, I can say that driving an F1 car WILL NOT be easy, despite the paddle gear shift and other driver aids. Believe me, it will seem a lot faster in the cockpit than it looks on the onboard camera.

[billlobban]

I can say that driving an F1 car WILL NOT be easy.

Having driven a number of single seater racing cars, albeit some considerable time ago and having been addicted to motor racing in general and F-1 in particular since I was a small child in my honest opinion modern F-1 cars are too easy to drive. Maybe not for the average driver. But we are not talking about the average driver. We are talking about the best of the best. The level of aerodynamic grip is just too high and therefore the cars seem to run on rails and are more like slot cars than F-1 cars. Additionally the aerodynamic benefits spoil any chance of close racing because of the negative effect on the following car of running close together.
Get rid of the wings and other aerodynamic gizmos and give us back real racing.

If you are tempted to go to just one F-1 race in your life go to Monza. Not the best circuit by any means (its a bit point and squirt). But the atmosphere is electrifying. Especially if you have a Ferrari in the lead. Something for your 'bucket list' maybe.

[Blaketon]

The thing is with wings and down force is that they increase the cornering forces to the point that it becomes tiring. The other thing that it does is to increase cornering speeds and this in conjunction with the very high speeds on the straights (Yet more G forces from accelerating and braking) means that you have less time to think.

It is true that the cars will corner at very high speeds and they have the appearance of being on rails. However that does tend to mean the difference between appearing to corner on rails and going off is not that much. In a way it’s like comparing a modern car with a Minor (Or a VSCC racing car with a more modern one); some modern cars may have higher levels of grip but they are not so forgiving. A Minor will let you know if its getting a bit out of sorts but some of the modern stuff will just bite you, with very little warning, when you push them too far.

Wings and other aerodynamic aids have been around for over forty years and F1 has not been boring for forty years. In 1978, when Lotus had the 79, they blew the others away (Which some may have found boring) and it was a mainly a race for who came third, behind Andretti & Petersen. During the 1980s, there were the turbo cars, which I think may still be the most powerful Grand Prix cars ever (I’m not sure what modern engines give; I know the BMW turbo showed 1300bhp on the dyno) and that didn’t mean boring racing. In 1984 it was a race between Lauda and Prost for the title, which was quite memorable. I also remember the early part of the 1985 British Grand Prix was entertaining. The 1986 & 7 British Grand Prix were nail biting, even though they each revolved around a race between two cars. In each case, there was only one overtaking manoeuvre, though in 1987, it came after an enthralling chase.

I think what has now happened is that the cars are now pretty evenly matched (Though in such circumstances, surely this makes the driver more important) and perhaps the circuits are not really adequate (The long straights have been broken up because they are too dangerous). The issue of wings may aggravate this but I don’t think it is the cause of the present situation. Braking zones are negligible, so the opportunity to out brake someone is lessened (Again making it more difficult).

I would be in favour of banning automatic/semi automatic gearboxes and installing clutch pedals, perhaps banning carbon fibre brake discs, though engine power might then have to be reduced. However as in 1961 – 65, when the 1 ½ litre formula was used, the cars of 1965 were lapping faster than those of 1960. There is always a battle between the rule makers and the designers.

[billlobban]

Although I agree with some of you comments (brakes and gearboxes in particular) we'll just have to disagree on others. For me the main problem is overtaking or lack there of. Cause - aerodynamics. If you take Sundays race as an example Vettle would have won by a country mile (so much for evenly matched cars) but for a broken exhaust and yet Webber driving an identical car (albeit not broken) was unable to get even close to passing Button and Schumaker. It is fairly obvious that when you are in the dirty air you cannot stay close enough around the bends to be able to get past on the straights. Therefore we get boring processions like Sunday's race.
If you really want some excitement go watch a F3 race or as has been suggested above a banger race
Technology has ruined many sports F-1 among them
Slightly ludicrous suggestion - Instal an intermittant sprinkler system on every track that would sort the men from the boys

[Blaketon]

But they still have wings on F3 cars. I think where the difference comes is that the speeds are lower, so there is more time to pass. If they held the French GP at Le Mans, on the Sarthe circuit, they could overtake on the Mulsanne Straight (God alone knows how fast they would be going) and at a number of other places. Of course if they all had pretty much the same straight line speed, that could make it awkward!!

In relative terms, they are pretty evenly matched. If you look at the lap times, the top ten fastest times were all within about 2 seconds, which in racing terms is a fair bit but in relative terms is within 2% (Oddly enough Vettel only set 12th fastest race lap, so would Alonso have caught him anyway???). The differences are too marginal to manifest themselves.

As for me, I like VSCC stuff. Yes there is a lot of money involved but the cars are all obselete and the handicapping system means that you don't have the be the fastest to win something (Though there is an award for the fastest time of day). The Bentley Napier at Prescott (Or Shelsley etc) is something to see . I'm afraid that anything where smashing up the competing vehicles is par for the course is not my cup of tea. Damage should be accidental, not intentional.

[Tenaka]

If you're bored with F1 you could always try MotoGP

[billlobban]

In relative terms, they are pretty evenly matched. If you look at the lap times, the top ten fastest times were all within about 2 seconds, which in racing terms is a fair bit but in relative terms is within 2% (Oddly enough Vettel only set 12th fastest race lap, so would Alonso have caught him anyway???). The differences are too marginal to manifest themselves.

2 seconds a lap is a huge margin in F1. The only way to compare their relative pace is in (if they get a clear lap) qualifying when they are all on the same fuel. Potentially race pace should increase as the fuel load comes down but it obviously varies as to who is on what tyre and when.
Possibly Alonso might have caught him but would he have been able to overtake - I think not - the procession would just have been a little closer together.
This might interest you http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/06/14/h ... t-le-mans/

If you're bored with F1 you could always try MotoGP

Never liked motor bikes much but I have to admit MotoGP is fun and you can see the drivers

[bmcecosse]

Well - both Schumacher and Ecclestone (and about 50 million disappointed 'fans') seem to agree with me! How they didn't see this coming - I just don't know. They are in a panic - talk of making two Pit Stops compulsory as a short term fix! But there's no doubt - removal of the wings is going to be the answer to get some overtaking, but then the cars will be too fast - so they will cut the power - and we will be back to square one. I say bring back refuelling - although there were some 'incidents' , there weren't any major disasters - and it did make the race much more interesting, and probably safer. Just wait till there is a crash at the start - between several cars all loaded up with fuel - and a massive fire breaks out. We'll soon be back to re-fuelling after that! Could make it that tyres and fuel could NOT be done at the same time! That would make it safer - less personnel around the car when refuelling - and much more interesting!

[jonathon]

Simple answer , two races of 30 laps or one 20 lap sprint followed by a 40 lapper . Full fuel level to cover each race and no pit stops. Result two flat out races testing drivers skill. Could even reverse start the first 8 of the first race as seen in touring cars.
I cannot see why there are no points for fastest qualifier, fastest lap etc.

[dalebrignall]

a half empty fuel tank is more explosive than a full one .

[bmcecosse]

But all that fuel - if even just one tank ruptures! I agree Jono - there should be points for these. I also don't understand why none of the cars are running KERS this year - it's still allowed in the regs - and would give them that boost to pass coming out of a corner! Maybe they will see the light - but I rather doubt it.

[billlobban]

Simple answer , two races of 30 laps or one 20 lap sprint followed by a 40 lapper . Full fuel level to cover each race and no pit stops. Result two flat out races testing drivers skill. Could even reverse start the first 8 of the first race as seen in touring cars

But it wouldn't give us any closer racing - other than on the occasional short circuit like Interlagos they just cant overtake each other. Now they cant even stay close 'cos the engines overheat and they need to make them last to save money
I dont think kers made it any better either all it did was artifically produce overtaking in the first few hundred yards irrespective of how good your car was in the remainder of the lap you just hit the go button gained a few places and ruined the rest of the race as faster cars behind your kers lump had even less chance of overtaking. Plus if they start using kers again (god forbid) how long before they all have it this time and we are back to square one again spending money for no benefit to the fan.