it's an electrical problem now ..

[xpress]

trying to get back on the road after a winter lay up in the garage.

the petrol pump is clicking readily now after a bit of a scrape.

i put a chrome screwdriver in the leads and onto an earth to see if i get an arc/spark. nothing. i tried pots one, two and three.

i also tried the main lead end going into the dizzy in the middle, no spark.

i think it might be the coil, anything i can do to diag that, i have a multimeter. tried a birmingham spanner, no dice.

could it be the alternator or coil, how do i test for that and can it be repaired?

thank you in advance.

[bmcecosse]

It's NOT going to be the coil Why does everyone want to blame the poor old coil!!? Start with points/condenser/rotor arm/dizzy cap etc etc - and of course -spark plugs!! It is of course worth checking the connections at the coil - if you have an ohmeter - check the coil LT circuit (take wires off) - should be ~ 3.2 ohms.

[charlie_morris_minor]

When I come over next weekend, I will also bring a spare coil with me just in case it is that. It is not going to be the alternator that is causing the problem, that generates the electricity that goes to your battery.

[autolycus]

A few simple checks, using a multimeter set to "volts":

One lead of meter to battery terminal (earthed side).

Distributor cap off, turn the engine with the handle until the points are obviously closed. Ignition on, connect the meter to measure the voltage where the lead from the coil goes into the distributor. It should be close to zero. Push the points open with a small insulated screwdriver, watching the voltage. It should rise to 12.something. If it doesn't rise to this, there are two possibilities: either there's a break in the circuit from the battery through to the distributor, which should be fairly straightforward to find, or there's a short circuit to earth within the distributor, which could be the condenser or incorrect assembly of the terminals and insulators on the points.

If there is 12v at the distributor terminal, but it doesn't drop to zero with the points closed, there's either a break in the flexi wire in the distributor, or the points are dirty.

Once you're sure that the voltage at the distributor (and therefore on the LT lead from the coil to the coil to the distributor) is flipping between 12v and 0v as the points open and close, it's time to turn to the HT side.

Disconnect the "king lead" - the HT lead from the coil to the distributor - at the distributor end, and wedge it so that its free end is 1/8" or so from something earthed, like the engine. Ignition on, then either open the points with a screwdriver, as before, or turn the engine over with the starting handle. There should be a good spark every time the points open. If there isn't, look for a spark somewhere else, like across the end insulation of the coil, or where the HT lead passes near earthed metal. If current through the coil is being switched on and off, but there's no HT spark, it's either a faulty coil or a faulty king lead (particularly if it's one of those wretched leads with a suppressor core - looks like black string down the middle, instead of copper wire). Substitute for known good ones in either case.

I can't cover everything in a few sentences, and I know there are some faults this process won't reveal (some high resistance conections, for instance), but I hope it will give xpress a fresh approach. If you decide to give this method a go, please report your findings and we'll take it from there.

Kevin

[bmcecosse]

Very basic 'first test' - take #1 lead off the spark plug - and remove the spark plug fom the head. Connect the lead and aly the plug on the cylinder head - turn the engine over on the handle and watch for the spark every 4th pull. No spark - investigate further as above. If good spark - nothing wrong with the ignition!

[xpress]

so far the distributor points have been opened and closed with a screwdriver, there was a yellowish spark, and not a blue spark. the points i think are pitted and need to be replaced. the petrol pump is still sticking in the cold but i think with some use it will unstick itself. also, these home car battery chargers, do they do a good job in charging the battery, when the ready light is showing? i might check the battery with a voltmeter. i am going to order some new points, a condenser, and a new rotor arm.

[charlie_morris_minor]

i would be tempted to get the rest of bits at the same time.. i.e. cap, leads and plugs you may well find that some of the moggy places do a special offer on all the service parts

[pjh56]

You can purchase a service kit with all the components you need already in it, have a look at the main morris parts dealers.

I bought one of these last week and they are handy to have in an emergency.

[chickenjohn]

Yes, I agree, service kits are not expensive- buy one for your age of car (and while at it- change the oil as well) and then see how the car runs.

When you are trying to start the car does the coil get VERY hot??? BMC- poor old coils are good, the problem is if a rubbish modern made coil has been fitted of poor quality and this has failed prematurely.

You might find though that after fitting the service parts the car starts and runs well. Often, the contacts inside the distributor cap can furr up with corrosion. SCrape these off with flat bladed screwdriver. i have seen this a few times. Keep the old service parts as spares. Fit the new parts from the kit one at a time and see if they make a difference.

[autolycus]

Have you tried the checks I suggested? Seems easier than throwing money at it, when you don't know where the fault lies.

Kevin

[bmcecosse]

I agree - follow Kevin's guide - don't just throw parts at it! the more you disturb - the more problems may arise. Keep it simple, diagnose the problem - then fix it.

[charlie_morris_minor]

The reason I suggested getting a complete service kit is two fold..

firstly when you start to diagnose the problem you do need to have all the parts to hand s**ds law states the faulty part will be the only part you do not have! if you only have half the parts and that does not resolve the problem you then have to stop what you are doing and pop down the local motor factors to get the next few bits and waste an hour doing it..

as the parts are all general service parts even if they are not used in tracking down the fault they will be used next time you service the car.

[bmcecosse]

Oh yes - by all means get the service kit - just don't throw all the parts on without finding out what the problem REALLY is. Then, when the problem is fixed and the engine running again - fit one part at a time - or stick them in the glovebox as spares. I would start by cleaning/gapping points - and fitting a NEW condenser.

[mike.perry]

A couple of things I think were missed
Check that the carbon brush in the distributor cap is free to spring in and out.
Check the points gap before you check for a spark at the points
Excuse me if these have already been covered.

[xpress]

all good 'points!'

the diz cap is fine, looks brand new and the points are healthy. i ordered condenser, diz points, petrol pump points. since i saw a spark at the diz i think the coil is working. either it works or doesn't right? you just reminded me i am going to get a feeler guage or have a look to see if i have one, metric one ok? what does the diz points have to be gapped to, what does the petrol pump points have to be gapped to? a very kind man helped me free up the dashpot, cleaned it with some mild abrasive car paint polisher and piston moves well now. looking forward to some good morris motoring.

so the other bits i should get for the service/spares kit:

* some ht leads
* spark plugs
* feeler guage - will keep this handy,
* i need to pick up a good grease gun with four grabbers on the end instead of three
* a nice old retro oil can

any help in finding the last two, anyone got a spare i can purchase or know where i can get the last two?

and thanks to everyone, i am enjoying the process and marvelling at the simplicity and effectiveness of the morris minor, (and swearing at the petrol pump now and again lol). )