Pick up Restoration (Part 2)

[davidmiles]

there is still a slight difference between the two panels, about 2mm of the older top panel protrudes above the joint. May be able to sort this some how after the welding is done.[frame][/frame]

[linearaudio]

I reckon if you weld the bits that overlap properly, you can then "dress" the remaining joggle upwards to overlap. Don't ever expect to get a straight line using hand bending/ joggling techniques, unless you can bend the entire length in one go! It's also a good idea to work from one end of a piece, eg cut the patch oversize, joggle, then judge where the bottom flange should come, as metal has a nasty habit of growing, or usually shrinking, when your back is turned! I understand you couldn't in this instance as the joggler wasn't there, and also am not trying to pick holes- just these things I have found out the hard way many times in the past! Keep up the good work

[davidmiles]

frustrating,dismal failure. The weld failed to penetrate the older metal leaving a weld pool sitting on its surface, the new metal is acting as expected, but the rust treated older steel is just not conducting.[frame][/frame]

[davidmiles]

In a closer view of the failed weld, its clear that the newer metal is welding, but the older metal is just imperviouse.[frame][/frame]

[jonathon]

Original steel doesn't look bright enough , ie rust free, no paint, which may be causing you a problem, use a 36 grit flap disc to clean it up .
May I suggest that you clean up the piece of steel you have removed and try some test welds on this piece first. It looks as if you need more amps too as the weld seems to be sitting on the surface.
Ideally the plug welds should be between 6-8mm to allow the weld to pool onto both surfaces.

[linearaudio]

EEK! Without going back through yards of pages, are you using a MIG for that, in which case-good luck!!
Something I've never mastered with MIG, but have managed to acheive good results with a stick welder, using 2.5mm rods and about 100 amps, using as Jonathon says, 6-8mm hole size. Whichever method you use, have plenty of practise first so your panels don't end up looking like a battleground! And keep the two bits clamped close together at all times- they shift away from each other quite happily when hot!

[davidmiles]

yes thats is what has happened here, I cleaned up the old steel so that bare silver metal shone through and it welded ok, but ,Ive now got trouble with the panels moving apart, need better, longer reaching weld clamps to hold the steel tightly together.[frame][/frame]

[davidmiles]

My Bump hammers and dollies arrived at long last, anyone else have trouble with late parcels?[frame][/frame]

[taupe]

David

If you cant get clamps in then try using self tapping screws to hold together. As soon as its welded you can remove the screws and plug the small holes with weld.

Heres a pic by Rob Thomas lifted from this forum.

[davidmiles]

Good idea, I will try that tommorow. Hopefully it will improve things so I can move my project onward and upward...[frame][/frame]

[linearaudio]

Never having had any welding clamps, I always use a suitable rod (usually the trolley jack handle) and wedge it between my chest/knee/whatever and the workpiece to keep some pressure on it! Sounds daft, but it works, and gets into corners no clamp will!

[jonathon]

Use the technique as shown in Taupes latest post, using self tappers, it works very well, but you still need to check for distortion.
I'd suggest not taking the two pieces of steel upto the swage line. Leave about 3-4 mm gap and weld into this area. This will leave you a nice trough into which you weld, plus when you clean up the weld there is much less chance of of going through the joggled fold.

[davidmiles]

The self taping screw method worked a treat, many thanks guys, great advice as usual. There is still a fair amount of welding and grinding still to be done, it doesn't look very neat at the moment but I'll keep grinding away, filling that groove with weld before grinding it down.
[frame][/frame]

[davidmiles]

For anyone who's just joined this thread and are mystified as to where this part of welding and grinding is taking place, its shown on the model marked with masking tape.
My main problem now is the panel juts out slightly, I need that gentle curve inward toward the bottom. at the moment it protrudes outward by about 7 mm.[frame][/frame]

[jonathon]

I'd be very careful about filling the 'groove' with weld, as this will distort the steel if you are not careful. I have attatched some pics of a similar joint that we have just performed on Kates 4 dr . The 'groove' will be left and skimmed with filler to achieve a perfect finish. You will see that the weld is well below the swage line and with minimal overlap. We find that a 20mm belt sander is best for cleaning up the welds as they are more accurate and induce less heat than a grinder.
I'd also be tempted to jig the sides of the pickup to hold the steelwork perfectly flat

[frame][/frame][frame][/frame][frame][/frame]

[davidmiles]

getting there, the bottom tip of the wheel arch keeps blowing holes, but Ive managed to keep on top of it so far. This panel has given me a lot of practical experience and practice with my MIG. With a skim of body filler over this I may even end up with a reasonable surface.[frame][/frame]

[davidmiles]

Here is an overview of where I am with the panel,my earlier concearn that the new patch would jut out at the bottom was put to rest once the panel to wheel arch joint was done. it conforms nicely with the rest of the side panel.[frame][/frame]

[davidmiles]

looking from a high angle the panel curves down and in nicely. But, seeing how much work is needed to be able to use this grey panel, My attention is being drawn toward my green one's that need less patch welding...mind you the greys have given me enough practice to get stuck into the greens...
[frame][/frame]

[davidmiles]

The green sides with less rust less patching needed and more metal.[frame][/frame]

[jonathon]

I'd suggest that if using the green ones , that you strip the whole panel back to bare metal before starting to weld. Even local shot blasting of rusty areas will give you the best possible chance of gaining a 'true ' picture of the panels and a good surface on which to weld.