Ani's back!!

[ani]

Well the little red pick-up failed the MOT but only on rear breaks and handbreak - neither of which work!! Oh and worn rubber bushes on the rear shocks.

Wonder if you might be able to help as I've got a couple of questions!

The first - I checked Bull Motif for the rubber bush and it says I need 4 per side - is that correct? When I looked I could only see one!

Now to the breaks - I've taken the wheels off and when you push down the break pedal absolutely nothing happens! Bearing in mind the front breaks are ok should I assume that there is some kind of blockage in the break pipe which goes to the back breaks? I also noticed a bit of oil on one of the break shoes.

If anyone could give me a step by step guide to finding my way around this I would be grateful. It might well be beyond my capabilty but it would be good to understand it anyway.

[MarkyB]

It wont be a blockage, the rear cylinders will have seized up and need replacing.

I think there will only be two rubber bushes per shock absorber (4 each for the springs though)
They can be changed but replacing the shock absorbers may be an easier option.

[billlobban]

[quote="ani"] I also noticed a bit of oil on one of the break shoes.

Sure its oil and not brake fluid? That could explain your loss of brakes

[alzax3]

Well - haven't done the rear shocks myself yet, but if the rubber bushes are fitted one either side at each end of the shock (quite a common way of doing it) then 4 for each shock would be about right!

If nothing happens when you press the brake pedal then either the fluid isn't getting through (due to air or blockage) or the cylinders have siezed. Slackening off a bleed nipple while someone presses the pedal will show you whether fluid is getting to the cylinder (it'll squirt out). If it does, then you know it's the cylinders and the best thing to do is buy new, they're not dear and they'll work better than trying to recondition the old ones.

If it is oil on the pads then your wheel bearing seals probably need replacing too.

[ani]

Thanks for replies so far. Already slackened off a bleed nipple (actually it came off completely0 pressed the pedal lots and no fluid appears - so maybe not the cylinders??

MOT guy just pointed to the bush on the upper part of the shock absorber - there wasn't much of one left!!

[alzax3]

Well that's a start..... if you're not getting any fluid, they're not going to work! So - if the front brakes work, then either you've still got an airlock, or possibly got a collapsed or blocked pipe running to the rear, or the master cylinder is not doing its stuff. Looks like you've got some pipe tracing to do. The difficult bit will be access to the master cylinder, which is very well 'proctected' in the chassis rail beneath the driver's side floor.

[MarkyB]

A blockage would be unusual, but not impossible.
Did the pedal go to the floor with the bleed nipple off?
Has a servo been fitted?

[PSL184]

Has it been jacked up on a brake pipe and flattened it?

Rear shocks have 2 bushes, top and bottom each side so 4 in total per shock or 8 if you are doing both sides....

[ani]

LoL - it's sitting on axel stands but I will check to make sure nothing is squashed! No servo and yes break pedal did go to the floor not really sure if it was still on at this stage! Seems like a job for someone with very very long arms and legs
Why couldn't it have just failed on a simple piece of welding ..........................arghhhhhhhhh

[aupickup]

on the top of the rear shocks is a special stepped washer , it has to go back the same way, and yes there or 4 bushes on each rear shocks

is it possible the flexi hose to the rear brakes has collapsed in some way

[ani]

Is there a separate hose to each rear break or does the fluid just flow down the central pipe from the MC to both rear breaks at the same time - if you know what I mean!

Just for added measure the handbreak doesn't work either but hope that might be something simple .....

[alzax3]

I've found that if the wheel cylinders aren't working right, then the handbrake isn't happy either. you should easily be able to see what the handbrake does at the cylinder end when you pull on the handle, for that matter, you should be able to make the brake shoes expand by pulling on the lever at the at the drum end, if it doesn't move them, there's something amis there.

[PSL184]

Is there a separate hose to each rear break or does the fluid just flow down the central pipe from the MC to both rear breaks at the same time - if you know what I mean!

There is one solid pipe from the rear of the master cylinder which goes into a rubber flexi pipe at the axle. This then splits into 2 solid pipes - one to each wheel, so, as said, it is possible that the flexi has collapsed internally and is blocking fluid to both rear wheels.... Handbrake is purely manual. IE you pull the lever inside the car which pulls on cables which operates an arm on the bottom of the cylinders. If this doesnt work the cables may need adjusting so they are tighter or the cables may have stretched so far over the years that they need replacing.

[PSL184]

ps where you been ?

[ani]

Thanks so far - I think I'll get new cylinders and bearing seals for starters and then start looking at the pipework. I noticed that you can buy a whole set of brake pipes but that might be going a bit over the top!

[PSL184]

If fluid isn't coming out of the nipples when thay are slackened off then I suggest you relace the rear flexi aswell and also check the pipes that run down the axle, either side, aren't squashed....

[aupickup]

is the fluid / oil on the rear brakes all over the shoes or is the oil just coming on to the bottom part of the brake back plate, if so could just be the gasket and oil seal between the half shafts

i have had the front flexi collapse internally

i would say just get the rear flexi ( state it is for a van) and the rear brake pipes to the cylinders

could be just dtretched cables on the handbrake, they are quite cheap so maybe a good idea to replace them , they are easy to do anyway

[ani]

PSL -Haven't really been anywhere - struggling still to find a new permanent job. Seems that once you've gone past 50 employment opportunities fade away!! Perhaps I should have spent more time trying to find a man/mechanic to keep me in the manor to which I've been accustomed!! (i.e. lying underneath cars on concrete floors Other bad news is I've started to get pretty bad joint problems in my hands - particularly thumbs joints. Doctor is concerned that it could be rheumatoid arthritis so now having x-rays. Apart from that everything is just GREAT!!!! Good to be back cos I miss talking to you guys

[ani]

is the fluid / oil on the rear brakes all over the shoes or is the oil just coming on to the bottom part of the brake back plate, if so could just be the gasket and oil seal between the half shafts

i have had the front flexi collapse internally

i would say just get the rear flexi ( state it is for a van) and the rear brake pipes to the cylinders

could be just dtretched cables on the handbrake, they are quite cheap so maybe a good idea to replace them , they are easy to do anyway

Good point - oil only on the bottom part I believe but I'll check. And everything else sounds like a sensible route. I suppose anything I don't need can always be returned to good old BM

[PSL184]

PSL -Haven't really been anywhere - Good to be back cos I miss talking to you guys

Nice to have you back - I was only thinking the other day that we hadn't heard from you in a while. Wishing you all the best with Job hunting and health