Brake system re-build

Post by **brixtonmorris** » Sun May 16, 2004 10:29 am

the bars got to come off salty.
unless you have a spreader, you can hire one from the hire shop.
theo only you want to know how to split the taper. everyone else must know how to do it.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Sun May 16, 2004 7:22 pm

salty_monk,
Use a crowbar on the torsion bar, with a block of wood to spread the load on the chassis leg or on the floor. It's so easy (with a good shove on the crowar) that you can even put the bolts back in the correct way round when refitting.

brixtonmorris,
Didn't realise you wanted us to beg ;-)

Post by **brixtonmorris** » Sun May 16, 2004 7:53 pm

dont use a crow bar, go and hire the spreader

i thought you knew the method Ray

Post by **rayofleamington** » Sun May 16, 2004 8:40 pm

Hi Mark - I had a crowbar nearby in the garage (I often find useful on a Minor

)
There was a perfect bit of kit shown in the tips section, but the picture isnt't there anymore. This one was a small jackscrew with a plate on one end and a half pipe on the other to fit snug on the torsion bar. Turning the screwthread jacked the torsion bar out of the way - However this looks like a proffesional tool, as it wouldn't be worth to make something compared to the few extra minutes to do the job once with a crowbar.
I've never seen a spreader, but if you think it's better than a crowbar I believe you... I guess Cam will now put up a pic from somewhere showing us what a spreader is!

Post by **Kevin** » Sun May 16, 2004 9:53 pm

I guess Cam will now put up a pic from somewhere showing us what a spreader is!
Yes being towed by a tractor............

Post by **Cam** » Sun May 16, 2004 10:31 pm

Or as Ray says you can use one of these:

Post by **Cam** » Sun May 16, 2004 10:40 pm

Sorry....................

Here's a real picture of a spreader:

And they are only cheap (about £6 from Machine Mart) - useful tool to have around.

I've always meant to buy one but have always ended up using Ray's method. especially when you are lying under the car and you are looking round for something to do the job quickly with......................

Post by **brixtonmorris** » Mon May 17, 2004 11:28 am

what kind of tools you got in your gargage Cam.
this is all bad. your all telling a person to climb under there car with brake fluid dripping and use a crow bar to bend what is a big piece of steel out of the way so that you can get your little fingers in there to remove the bolts which are not the most agreable to deal with. and put it back. realy. the book says remove the torsion bar, i dont like the bending method but it does work.
the spreader is the hydraulic pump used for body work. you all seen the fire service using somthing similar on tv. it comes in a box with many fittings, 1 being the spreader. 2 small wedges back to back, when you pump they open.
place between the torsion bar and floor, between the master cly bolts. undo nut bolt , brake pipe first.
pump a few times an watch the bolts appear. the bar slides on the splines. dont pump to much, could bend the bar.
remove bolts leave spreader attatched there untill ready to put back.
they forces are contained between bar and floor, not touching chassis, its neat. crow bar will dent chassis, chip paint, and could bring car down on you. whatever sorry Ray, i dont like that idea, no control of situation
i dont have a crow bar in my garage. ive done a lot of master clyinders.
many nice tools in your hire shop for good prices.
i think they call in port a power kit, or set. mostly used for body work and straightning chassis.

Post by **57traveller** » Mon May 17, 2004 1:16 pm

Try http://www.dsnclassics.co.uk/frame_tech_mini_minor.htm Then to "Minor" section and Master Cyl. renewal. The additional bit is mine - works a treat.

Post by **Kevin** » Mon May 17, 2004 1:55 pm

Thats OK 57, so you used to be Peter of Liverpool until you moved South

Post by **Cam** » Mon May 17, 2004 2:41 pm

Brixton.

I am assuming of course that people taking advice from this board use common sense. We're not here to hold people's hands. If you don't feel safe about using a particular method then don't use it. If you are not happy getting under a car then pay someone else to do it for you.

what kind of tools you got in your gargage Cam.

Just the normal tools (including some big pieces of bar, angle iron etc)

this is all bad. your all telling a person to climb under there car with brake fluid dripping and use a crow bar to bend what is a big piece of steel out of the way so that you can get your little fingers in there to remove the bolts which are not the most agreable to deal with. and put it back. realy.

Yes. It works. Not ideal (as has been stated) but it works. If you don't feel happy then remove the bar (I have to now anyway as I have much thicker bars fitted and they don't bend like the originals).

Post by **Kevin** » Mon May 17, 2004 4:05 pm

I am assuming of course that people taking advice from this board use common sense.

I`m with you on that point Cam at least I hope common sense is used.
Mark if you thing using a bar is a bit iffy so be it, but I find changing the eyebolts ect and taking off and reapplying the tension on the Torsion bars to be a bigger risk if care is not taken, what is the foolproof method for that, even the reccommended way is not for the faint hearted.

Post by **Chris Morley** » Mon May 17, 2004 4:08 pm

I've done all this with my traveller (bent the torsion bar with a crow bar). It scrapes the underseal off and scratches the paint. Not a big problem as long as you rectify the damage afterwards. If it dents the chassis leg you've been too brutal or the leg needs replacing anyway. I know that this is a long way from good engineering practise but I'm sure that most DIY repairs are anyway.

There is an element of danger to the person under the car - the forces contained in the bent torsion bar can send the crow bar flying. Brake fluid is not good stuff to have dripping on your skin and into your eyes. And the force you exert when bending the torsion bar would certainly be enough to pull the car off an unbalanced single axle stand - I used the belt and braces approach of an axle stand on each axle, plus the raised jack under the crossmember and finally a big breeze block under each raised tyre.

You can't teach common sense and a healthy attitude towards risk. If someone asks how to do a major mechanical job we can only assume they have some confidence based on experience and the necessary tools and skills. If anyone indicates they aren't confident we always advise them to speak to their local Minor specialist. What more can you do? The alternative would be to have an unrealistic approach to risk which would virtually end any DIY car repairs.

Post by **salty_monk** » Mon May 17, 2004 4:16 pm

Too late.... didn't get all this before I stuck an angle grinder up the side of the leg with a cutting wheel on it & whipped off the bolt heads.... Need some new ones now but it wasn't too difficult, I was going to try the bend it with a crowbar approach but thought I may do more damage than good... oh well!
Am now about 1/2 way through the rebuild (if you include cleaning out & putting some wax down the chassis leg (was pretty dirty with a bit of water lying in the bottom trapped by all the dirt & old carpet hairs etc...).
Turns out that about half of the pipes, cylinders, all the shoes & the front drums had all been replaced recently anyway.. If only they'd done the full job & replaced the other rear cylinder & pipe at the same time.... Never mind means I'll clear out the leg & replace the flexi hoses which are starting to perish on the outside so probably a good thing - still undecided on the silicon fluid affair..
Cheers for all the help, now no more squabbling whilst I'm away - play nicely!

Post by **57traveller** » Mon May 17, 2004 4:46 pm

Kevin wrote:Thats OK 57, so you used to be Peter of Liverpool until you moved South

Not TOO far south Kevin.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Mon May 17, 2004 5:30 pm

If it dents the chassis leg

if it does that, then you should have used a suitable piece of wood under te crowbar or spreader.

salty_monk,
If you fit the replacement bolts the wrong way round make sure they have good clearance to the torsion bar. I've seen a car where the bolts had ground 2 grooves into the torsion bar! According to the exerts this can cause the bar to break

Post by **salty_monk** » Mon May 17, 2004 7:56 pm

Ok Ray, will do... Can always put the grinder up there again & grind them flush if worst happens...

Post by **Willie** » Mon May 17, 2004 8:06 pm

SALTY...oh no you wont get a 'grinder up there'! you will have
to withdraw the bolts and grind them then unless you wish to risk
damaging the torsion bar which will lead to a subsequent failure.
Do use a copper pipe for the rear brake supply pipe,and a good
grommet where it emerges through the centre cross member,
you can forget about it for ever then,

Post by **brixtonmorris** » Mon May 17, 2004 8:43 pm

Post by **les** » Mon May 17, 2004 10:34 pm

Put the bolts the right way round!