Ducellier Distributor

Post by **CLIPPERBLU** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:05 am

I have a Ducellier Distributor fitted to the Ital 1300cc in my mighty Mog. I have an old Marina/Ital Manual but it doesn't have any details on this type of distributor. I basically have 2 questions that I would appreciate some help with.

1. Does anyone know what the points gap should be?
2. Can I change it for a Lucas model(25D4/45D4) without too much grief?

Many thanks,

Rgds,

CLIPPER

Post by **GAS** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:38 am

This dizzy was fitted to some maestros,It should be able to swop for the lucas unit but i don't know if the advanced curves are the same.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:39 am

Points gap always ~ 15 thou - not too critical. Yes - you can fit a Lucas dizzy - as long as the same fixing method. Is your dizzy held in by one bolt and a 'fork' - or by two bolts and a clamp ?

Post by **CLIPPERBLU** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:38 pm

Thanks for the info on the distributor; most useful. Mine is held in with a single bolt and a 'fork'.

Cheers,

CLIPPER

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:13 pm

So - you can fit the later model Lucas dizzies - but not the 25D.

Post by **RobThomas** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:07 pm

45D4, 59 and 65DM4 models from the Metro. The tooth on the bottom of the shaft is a different size to pre-45 models. ^% does away with points altogether and has proven quite reliable. 30 thou miles without me having to touch it.

linearaudio · Post by **linearaudio** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:29 pm

RobThomas wrote:45D4, 59 and 65DM4 models from the Metro. The tooth on the bottom of the shaft is a different size to pre-45 models. ^% does away with points altogether and has proven quite reliable. 30 thou miles without me having to touch it.

You have got me wondering now! A couple of months back I did the mod shown in "Minor matters", and fitted a late Metro electronic distributor to my moggy. I don't remember any mention of different gear sizes? Surely the cam has a standard worm on it? Please expound!

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:37 pm

The cam - yes - but not the drive dog on the dizzy drive shaft! Later 1275 engines had different drive shafts. But if your dizzy was held in by one bolt and fork - then any other with similar fixing can be used. It is also possible (but hardly worthwhile in my view) taking the dizzy to pieces and rebuilding with parts from another model to 'make' it fit - maybe this is what you have done?

linearaudio · Post by **linearaudio** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:02 pm

bmcecosse wrote:The cam - yes - but not the drive dog on the dizzy drive shaft! Later 1275 engines had different drive shafts. But if your dizzy was held in by one bolt and fork - then any other with similar fixing can be used. It is also possible (but hardly worthwhile in my view) taking the dizzy to pieces and rebuilding with parts from another model to 'make' it fit - maybe this is what you have done?

I know the drive dog is different, but the inference here was that the GEAR teeth were different! That I do not comprehend!
No I haven't dismantled things, the mod is very straight forward, you cut the turned section of the moggy distributor mount off, and fix it to the bottom of the later dizzy, using a grubscrew in the periphery to secure it. The later dizzy will then drop straight in, using the later drive dog/gear of course. Instant cure for modern plasticene contact breaker heel syndrome! Only other thing is to make a lock tag for the dizzy base,picking up on the fixing hole for the original (discarded) mount.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:31 pm

Yes - I know the modification of old - just doesn't seem worth it to me! The gears haven't ever changed.

Post by **Kevin** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:23 am

Hi Clipper the Ital engine was fitted with either Ducellier or Lucas 45D4 according to my manual.

Post by **PSL184** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:28 am

It would have been fitted with whatever was at the lineside at the time....

Post by **RobThomas** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:54 am

Ahhh. When I said 'tooth' I was refering to the size of the single offset 'tooth' on the dog that is pinned to the bottom of the distributor main shaft, the one that comes out with the dissy. The dissy shaft is the same OD so you CAN replace one drive dog for the one with a different 'tooth' size, if you see what I mean. The gear 'teeth' at the lower end are identical.
If you wanted to , you can use a 2?D6 dissy (Is it 22 and 24 on the Jaguar?)as a donor unit and get the D4 internals rebuilt into it so that you benefit from a MUCH longer dissy shaft thet resists bearing wear much longer. I did this to my Downton MGC so that it was easier to reach (I only have the one working hand)

Post by **CLIPPERBLU** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:14 pm

Thanks guys for all the advice. Didn't mean to cause too much angst regarding drive gears, teeth etc, etc but some very helpful info.

Cheers,

CLIPPER

linearaudio · Post by **linearaudio** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:49 pm

bmcecosse wrote:Yes - I know the modification of old - just doesn't seem worth it to me! The gears haven't ever changed.

OK!! You carry on with your plasticene contact breaker heels, points gap closing unexpectedly (at the most inconvenient time, of course!), resetting the timing as you reset the gap etc etc...

I'll stick with my unreliable, unproven, new-fangled electronic dizzy.
Seems worth it to me!

Post by **RobThomas** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:09 pm

I have a fancy piece of kit on my aeroplane engine that has no moving parts and a simple electronic advance curve. So simple that the CAA have approved it. There's a lot to be said for simplicity! Has anyone tried the "1-2-3" electronic system?

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:11 am

Well spoken of in Mini world - but v expensive!