Having now heard the news of a newcomer to the Traders front I was curious as to your views
Apparently Moss has produced a fairly comprehensive catalogue,using original part numbers - they were looking to producing some rare early bits like the split screen Chrome surround. (taken from Harrymango's reply on a different AGM thread)
The Minor parts world is currently served very well (IMO) by the likes of Bull Motif, ESM, B'Ham MMC, and C Ware. How a multi national company can fit into this arena will be interesting as this is a very limited market place which is at the moment a pretty stable environment.
How splitting the 'cake' into yet more pieces might prove to be the downfall of some small companies, especially given the track record of Moss in the MG market.
I just hope that the big players listed above can cope with yet another competitor
I'd be interested in your coments
Moss Europe
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davidmiles
- Minor Legend
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Competition can be a good thing in keeping prices reasonable and customer service a priority, but in our limited market it could spell trouble for the smaller producers of parts,especially where short runs of parts in low demand are concerned. Then again, more producers, making parts more redily available could mean more minors saved or restored.
smile, you never know, you might be winning.[IMG]http://i67.tinypic.com/2ro3j37.jpg[/IMG]
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billlobban
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I'd agree with most of the views that have been added, but for the fact that having talked to some 'big' suppliers the chances of new products from Moss will be very small. The only section that I feel they can add value is to the unobtainable parts. Now there is a reason that these are unobtainable ie that there is no profit in tooling up for the tiny amount of sales. If a part was needed then the suppliers often at great cost commission their own, ie ESM rear chassis legs Bull motif springs.
I can only see that Moss will divide the small profits that are currently available by one more factor, they will not introduce new panels as Hadrian and Heritage have this sewn up, for them to re tool would be an immense task and financial commitment, so for the near future I would imagine that they will be supplying exactly what everyone else does.
The kock on impact of this will be reduced profit for the established suppliers which will then hit their ability to source the better parts that you are requiering.
About a dozen MG companies went to the wall for the very same concern I hold.
The 'big' boys might be able to withstand a price war, but all this will do is drive quality down and not up. As a small manufacturer Moss could easily swamp our modification business, which could lead to us shutting up shop as we simply do not have the finances to fight back or introduce new lines in order to survive.
I suppose its in the short term interests of the customer to support Moss but I dread to see where we are in a years time, if indeed we are still trading in the numbers of today.
I can only see that Moss will divide the small profits that are currently available by one more factor, they will not introduce new panels as Hadrian and Heritage have this sewn up, for them to re tool would be an immense task and financial commitment, so for the near future I would imagine that they will be supplying exactly what everyone else does.
The kock on impact of this will be reduced profit for the established suppliers which will then hit their ability to source the better parts that you are requiering.
About a dozen MG companies went to the wall for the very same concern I hold.
The 'big' boys might be able to withstand a price war, but all this will do is drive quality down and not up. As a small manufacturer Moss could easily swamp our modification business, which could lead to us shutting up shop as we simply do not have the finances to fight back or introduce new lines in order to survive.
I suppose its in the short term interests of the customer to support Moss but I dread to see where we are in a years time, if indeed we are still trading in the numbers of today.
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mike.perry
- Series MM Registrar
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No - I meant 'suppliers' - if they find the goods they are marketing are sub-standard, a reputable Co will stop supplying these goods. Others (we know who they are!) - just keep pumping them out the door!
There are MANY MG suppliers - not just MOSS. From what I have experienced and heard from MG owners - their service is superb.
There are MANY MG suppliers - not just MOSS. From what I have experienced and heard from MG owners - their service is superb.
Moss Europe
Depends on what you mean by sub standard. If you take panels then compared to the originals then these would be the first to go.bmcecosse wrote:No - I meant 'suppliers' - if they find the goods they are marketing are sub-standard, a reputable Co will stop supplying these goods. Others (we know who they are!) - just keep pumping them out the door! .
Suppliers withdraw parts, say swivel pins , no other option available , what happens then to the Minor market.
My view is that customers support suppliers who can then have more influence on manufacturers.
If Moss were the answer to quality issues then why are the MG market subject to the same spring/parts issues as is the Minor.
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Dean
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Interesting topic. What is MOSS's CV, being relatively new to the classic scene it's a new name to me.
Do they manufacture and supply or do they source parts from elsewhere to their own standards? Or will they just be a supplier of the parts from the same parts bin???
Personally I'm guessing they'll do the rare bits to get on the scene, then do the more profitable bits once established.
Do they manufacture and supply or do they source parts from elsewhere to their own standards? Or will they just be a supplier of the parts from the same parts bin???
Personally I'm guessing they'll do the rare bits to get on the scene, then do the more profitable bits once established.
My Minor:
A Clarendon Grey 1953 4 Door Series II.
MMOC - 66535
A Clarendon Grey 1953 4 Door Series II.
MMOC - 66535
Agreed Dean re parts, but Moss will only be able to sell panels in the same way as all of the other companies, which means that the retail selling price will be very similar across the board as the profit margins on these panels are very small. After Moss have served time and established a credable presance in the Minor world, will they be concidered for Heritage status where the option for bigger discounts will available.
Just depends on whether the rest of the suppliers will be willing to supply Moss. knowing that it will do their business no good at all.
A feast for the enthusiast, Moss Europe's history began in the late 1970s when the Sprite & Midget Centre established by Graham Paddy, teamed up with Cox & Buckles, the Triumph parts specialist. The two specialists combined to keep British classic car enthusiasts in the driving seat. By 1981 British Leyland had stopped building the venerable MGB and was not interested in supplying spares and back-up for their older cars.
Moss history
By 1986 the Classic British Sportscar Spares Group was doing brisk business. Branches opened across the country and the business grew into a worldwide mail order and wholesaling network, spurred on by the improving standards of its indispensable catalogues.
In 1989, CBSSG was acquired by Moss Motors of California and became known as Moss Europe. Then in 1993 Moss Europe was sold to Ingham PLC, a public company keen to expand into motor parts supply. In October 1996 the company was subject to a management buyout, The company was renamed Moss International and operated under this name until the end of 1999.
In January 2000 the company entered receivership. This unfortunate low point in an otherwise long and successful enterprise led to the re-involvement of Moss Motors of California, and Peter Buckles and Neil Aldred. Pete and Neil had worked with the Moss USA team during a period of great success in the early 1990s. By bringing this team back together again, the newly renamed Moss Europe is back on track.
On 24 February 1999, Stirling Moss officially opened our new 40,000 square foot purpose built headquarters. The new premises are conveniently located just off the M3 motorway and are set to launch Moss Europe into the next millennium. This will ensure our continued lead in the remanufacture of obsolete parts, the innovation of new accessories and the efficient supply of essential spares and accessories to enthusiasts around the world.
Moss Europe continues to grow and expand its considerable business. As well as being the premier supplier to the classic car industry, we now have a range of parts and accessories for specialists vehicles, namely MGF and Mazda MX5. Whether new or old, our goal is to keep classic cars on the road.
Finding exactly the right parts for classic cars can be a nightmare but Moss Europe has years of experience. Moss catalogs are typicaly so complete they double as parts manuals. Our sophisticated, fully computerised distribution network means that our customers get exactly what they need, quickly and at the best possible price.
The atmosphere at all our retail counters is relaxed and friendly. Pull up a chair and leaf through a catalog, then walk your loved one around (pointing out possible birthday and holiday gift ideas) while we pick your order.
Moss is synonymous with our most cherished classic cars. As the World's largest supplier of parts and accessories for MG, Triumph, Austin Healey and Mini, we stock more productsand in greater depth than any other supplier. We stand ready to deliver any one of our over 35,000 different part numbers anywhere in the world.
Moss Europe is a vital player in keeping classics on the road, with a worldwide team of over 250 dedicated enthusiasts. Here at our UK headquarters, and from Moss in California, years of product development effort have resulted in the remanufacture of over 5,000 unique products.
It takes a pretty knowledgable staff to keep abreast of our ever changing inventory. We think our team is the best!
Just depends on whether the rest of the suppliers will be willing to supply Moss. knowing that it will do their business no good at all.
A feast for the enthusiast, Moss Europe's history began in the late 1970s when the Sprite & Midget Centre established by Graham Paddy, teamed up with Cox & Buckles, the Triumph parts specialist. The two specialists combined to keep British classic car enthusiasts in the driving seat. By 1981 British Leyland had stopped building the venerable MGB and was not interested in supplying spares and back-up for their older cars.
Moss history
By 1986 the Classic British Sportscar Spares Group was doing brisk business. Branches opened across the country and the business grew into a worldwide mail order and wholesaling network, spurred on by the improving standards of its indispensable catalogues.
In 1989, CBSSG was acquired by Moss Motors of California and became known as Moss Europe. Then in 1993 Moss Europe was sold to Ingham PLC, a public company keen to expand into motor parts supply. In October 1996 the company was subject to a management buyout, The company was renamed Moss International and operated under this name until the end of 1999.
In January 2000 the company entered receivership. This unfortunate low point in an otherwise long and successful enterprise led to the re-involvement of Moss Motors of California, and Peter Buckles and Neil Aldred. Pete and Neil had worked with the Moss USA team during a period of great success in the early 1990s. By bringing this team back together again, the newly renamed Moss Europe is back on track.
On 24 February 1999, Stirling Moss officially opened our new 40,000 square foot purpose built headquarters. The new premises are conveniently located just off the M3 motorway and are set to launch Moss Europe into the next millennium. This will ensure our continued lead in the remanufacture of obsolete parts, the innovation of new accessories and the efficient supply of essential spares and accessories to enthusiasts around the world.
Moss Europe continues to grow and expand its considerable business. As well as being the premier supplier to the classic car industry, we now have a range of parts and accessories for specialists vehicles, namely MGF and Mazda MX5. Whether new or old, our goal is to keep classic cars on the road.
Finding exactly the right parts for classic cars can be a nightmare but Moss Europe has years of experience. Moss catalogs are typicaly so complete they double as parts manuals. Our sophisticated, fully computerised distribution network means that our customers get exactly what they need, quickly and at the best possible price.
The atmosphere at all our retail counters is relaxed and friendly. Pull up a chair and leaf through a catalog, then walk your loved one around (pointing out possible birthday and holiday gift ideas) while we pick your order.
Moss is synonymous with our most cherished classic cars. As the World's largest supplier of parts and accessories for MG, Triumph, Austin Healey and Mini, we stock more productsand in greater depth than any other supplier. We stand ready to deliver any one of our over 35,000 different part numbers anywhere in the world.
Moss Europe is a vital player in keeping classics on the road, with a worldwide team of over 250 dedicated enthusiasts. Here at our UK headquarters, and from Moss in California, years of product development effort have resulted in the remanufacture of over 5,000 unique products.
It takes a pretty knowledgable staff to keep abreast of our ever changing inventory. We think our team is the best!
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Blaketon
- Minor Legend
- Posts: 2554
- Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 11:09 am
- Location: South Wales
- MMOC Member: Yes
I shall simply say that after 25 years of MG ownership, Moss are not my chosen supplier. When you have to obtain a refund via claim back from your credit card company, I think that speaks volumes.
For what its worth, I'd say most of the Minor specialists, with whom I have dealt, are overall, in no way inferior to MG specialists (There is only Morris one I won't touch).
For what its worth, I'd say most of the Minor specialists, with whom I have dealt, are overall, in no way inferior to MG specialists (There is only Morris one I won't touch).
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IaininTenbury
- Minor Legend
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- Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:09 am
- Location: Worcestershire
- MMOC Member: Yes
My own somewhat pessimistic view is that a company of that size, will have the wherewithall to undercut most other suppliers and force a few out of the market, then have a near monopoly on part supplying at prices they choose, in a similar manner to some of the large supermarket chains.
I really hope I'm wrong about that, must admit to being uneasy about it.
As Jonathon says, the reason the rare parts aren't produced is just down to economics with potentially really small production runs. I guess they'll do some previously unavailable high profile items, such as the Series 2 screen surrounds, to get attention and publicity, but can't see it being a huge concern to them in the long run.
As far as customer service goes, I've had afew MG parts off them over the years and its been pleasant enough experience, but then so is shopping at a WalMart store
I really hope I'm wrong about that, must admit to being uneasy about it.
As Jonathon says, the reason the rare parts aren't produced is just down to economics with potentially really small production runs. I guess they'll do some previously unavailable high profile items, such as the Series 2 screen surrounds, to get attention and publicity, but can't see it being a huge concern to them in the long run.
As far as customer service goes, I've had afew MG parts off them over the years and its been pleasant enough experience, but then so is shopping at a WalMart store
cheers
Iain
Fairmile Restorations.
'49 MM, '53 convertible, '55 van, and a '64 van.
Marina p.u., '56 Morris Isis Traveller, a '59 Morris JB van, a'66 J4 van, a '54 Land Rover, Land Rover 130, Renault 5, '36Railton, '35 Hudson, a Mk1 Transit and a Sherpa Camper...
A car can be restored at any time, but is only original once!
Iain
Fairmile Restorations.
'49 MM, '53 convertible, '55 van, and a '64 van.
Marina p.u., '56 Morris Isis Traveller, a '59 Morris JB van, a'66 J4 van, a '54 Land Rover, Land Rover 130, Renault 5, '36Railton, '35 Hudson, a Mk1 Transit and a Sherpa Camper...
A car can be restored at any time, but is only original once!
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IaininTenbury
- Minor Legend
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- Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:09 am
- Location: Worcestershire
- MMOC Member: Yes
Hopefully ok then, and all will be well, with a bit of healthy competion and some worthwhile new products on the market 
cheers
Iain
Fairmile Restorations.
'49 MM, '53 convertible, '55 van, and a '64 van.
Marina p.u., '56 Morris Isis Traveller, a '59 Morris JB van, a'66 J4 van, a '54 Land Rover, Land Rover 130, Renault 5, '36Railton, '35 Hudson, a Mk1 Transit and a Sherpa Camper...
A car can be restored at any time, but is only original once!
Iain
Fairmile Restorations.
'49 MM, '53 convertible, '55 van, and a '64 van.
Marina p.u., '56 Morris Isis Traveller, a '59 Morris JB van, a'66 J4 van, a '54 Land Rover, Land Rover 130, Renault 5, '36Railton, '35 Hudson, a Mk1 Transit and a Sherpa Camper...
A car can be restored at any time, but is only original once!