Hello and a few fiat related questions

[mattblackmog]

Hi All,

I have a '67 1098cc saloon which i did a lot of structural welding work on a few years ago, its languished since then!

I also did some uprating of parts, fitting a marina 1.3 rear axel and front disc brakes. Suspention wise, I have some spax dampers to fit, both front and rear, although the rear will require me to fabricate some towers inside the boot area.

I also have the marina pedal box/master cylinder servo/hydraulic clutch master, which I have cut a hole in the bulkhead for and made up a plate, but have yet to weld it in.

The origonal was partly missing when i got the car, what was there was wrecked, I have removed this and binned it.

To give me some enthusiasm and an engine, I have bought a fiat twin cam from ebay, one from a Fiat 125, its a 1608cc, it came with a 4 speed box, but I have bought a 5 speed box to use instead.

The engine has been sat for a long time, I have taken the cam covers off and the lobes are not worn or rusty. I removed most of the spark plugs, 2 have sheared off in the head!!! So I have filled the bores with oil and diesel mixed, mainly to soak the broken spark plugs. The engine turns over and was not scesed, so a good sign. I will need to take the head off to deal with the spark plugs and also give the head a freshen up.

A few questions if i may, the engine came with a broken viscious fan unit, which I have removed the blades from, will this require a shorter waterpump from a different twin cam to shorten the engine? If so any ideas wich one will fit? I have the marina/ital 1.3 radiator, but i dont know if this will fit or be suitable?

Also, are all fiat twin cam gasket sets of that bore size (80mm, not 84 as in the 1.8 and 2L engines), the same, or do i need one from that exact application?

And clutch wise, is it a straight swap to fit the 5 speed box, or do i need a different clutch plate and cover? Hmmmm, being a cable clutch, Im not sure where that leaves me with the marina hydraulic master cylinder??

I guess thats quite a list of questions!!!

I will see if i can upload a picture of the fiat engine and its 4 speed box, the newer 5 speed is from a fiat 131.

Many thanks
<br><br>

[dp]

I think the water pumps are the same length but maybe have different offset pulleys to line up the fanbelt. Do the pulleys currently line up - the alternator, crank and water pump as driven by the fanbelt.

as for the clutch activation, I also have the Marina pedalbox, I welded an extra bit of metal on top of of the Marina pedal to use a Fiat cable. can't think of the technical name but a fork-like bit that accepts a pin which holds the eye of the clutch cable. But when you push the pedal it pulls the cable. I.e. I don't use hydraulics for the clutch. You may have to cut or grind a little bit off the clutch release arm so it doesn't scrape the chassis rail.

The 5 speed gearbox should fit. Try it and see. You might be able to get the spark plugs out with an easy out (you can get from machine mart) but if you do, don't let it go into the cylinder head as it will force the plug outwards and could smash the threads in the cylinder head itself.

[bmcecosse]

Yes - I would say the BIG risk is ripping the threads out of the head with the spark plugs. Apply penetrating oil - and some localised heat.

[mattblackmog]

Hi, Thanks for the replys and tips! I have stripped out the remaining Minor radiator and cut a chunk out of the front crossmember, it looks tight to get a radiator in there with the viscous fan hub still attached to the water pump. I think I will need a normal pump and pully from a 131 as from the pictures i have seen, its a few inches shorter.

Oh how i now regret being so keen to get the spark plugs out.... I have soaked them in all manor of plusgas and wd40 and they are not giving in easily! Theres nothing left to get a good purchase on, so i think its grind down a hacksaw blade and try and cut some slots in the remaining part of the plug to free it up somewhat.

The carb fitted to the engine is not in great shape, some of the linkage between the two chokes is missing, so I will need a replacement.....

Im unsure if i should try and get a simmilar carb or I did read on here about using 2 SU carbs on a custom manifold. Twin 40's would be an option, or even a set of bike carbs, but i wasnt really after much more than the 90 or 100 hp the engine should make as standard. Anything that improved the fuel consumption would be good.

[jonathon]

With all of the problems and trouble to source parts , and your need for only upto 100bhp, why not fit a 1360 ,or 1380 A series and save the hassle.

[bmcecosse]

I agree - this all sounds way too much trouble - and the head may be scrap if you can't shift the plugs. Don't like your comment about 'cutting the front crossmember' - have you put the strength back in some other way ?

[MartinB]

I agree with Jonathon, if you are only after around 100 bhp you would be much better off with a 1360 or 1380 A series, it will be easier to make it handle properly as well as the A series is much lighter than the Fiat engine.

Also, I think the 1608 gaskets are different from the 131/132 engines as the bore spacings are different. Personally, I think the 1608 is too old, I think the parts are harder to get for those than the later 131/132 engines, and they are not exactly easy these days.

Martin

[mattblackmog]

Thanks for the tips and advise, yes, i see your point about using a 1360cc A series, but starting from scratch its going to be quite expencive to either find or build a suitable engine and then a suitable gearbox to run with it, food for thought though.

I removed the broken spark plugs by repeatedly heating the remains with an oxyacetelene torch and quenching them with WD40. Then I ground the flanks of a screwdriver to a chiseled edge and tapped it in with a hammer, they unscrewed fairly easily, so happy days.

I have spun the engine over on the starter motor and it makes pretty even compression over the cylinders, so im going to assume its in reasonable shape internally.

There are reasonably few engines which will fit a Minor without major modification to either the engine or the car, so hmmmm :-S

Parts could be an issue, but the local place can get me the service bits and pieces i need, cam belt, distributor cap, rotor arm, etc.

The front crossmember will be fine, i "hacked the chunk" out of it by marking it out carefully and cutting it with a plasma cutter. I will add the strength back to it by welding it up with a suitable plate or folding up a new one when i do the pedal box.

Its all choices, but for what i want and the cash I have to spend on it, this doesnt seem like a bad plan???

[badobsession]

a good rad to use is a peugeot 205 gti very thin and if you look e-bay you can pick one up cheep.

the 125 had two 1608cc one @90 BHP and one @ 100bhp this was the S
version engine code for the 90 was 125 A.000 and for the 100 it was
125 B.000
the 125 was not a popular engine as it was only made 1967/72 so a very early twin-cam .
the boar and stroke is similar to the later 1608cc 124 sport
but the heads and blocks cant be swapped with any off the 131/ 132 series .
this makes them very hard to source bits as most twincam bits are off
the 131/132 and they are hard to get now .
cant say if the 5 speed box will fit have never saw a 4 speed box .
as far as the clutch go with a hydraulic if you have done the pedal box
it is easy just get a slave the same one that dose the ital/miget box
and fabricate a bracket to fit it on to the gearbox
i have this and it works way better than a cable .
hope all goes well .
mark..