new owner says hi and has stupid questions

Post by **LouiseM** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:39 pm

I agree that no 'master class' is required. As BMC says, providing the standard brake set up is in good order, well maintained and correctly adjusted the brakes do exactly what they are supposed to do - stop the car. Of couse they feel ineffective when compared to a 'modern' vehicle but so do the seats, heater, lights, wipers etc

I enjoy driving a Minor precisely because it is not like driving a modern car. As long as you alter your driving style accordingly, and appreciate that your stopping distance has increased, you'll be fine, apart from of course the hazards caused by other road users

I'm not knocking anyone who feels the need to uprate their brakes, and can see the benefit with increased engine size, but I have always found them to be perfectly fine for a standard Minor.

Post by **MarkyB** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:27 pm

first class condition is easy to say, what does it mean in practice?
What angle do you have the leading edge?
What about filing off high spots on the shoes to suit the drum?
It isn't rocket science, it's knowledge, that should be shared, which is why I feel it should be shared rather than banging on about how adequate the standard brakes are.
It doesn't cut much ice when you girlfriend/wife/stranger drives the car an calls it a death trap with no brakes at all

.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:33 pm

Just fit new cylinders and new shoes if in any doubt about the old parts - the new parts are stupidly cheap certainly compared to modern car parts! Just a chance the drums will be badly worn or even slightly eccentric - but I haven't found this. New drums not expensive either! I don't file anything! Just USE the brakes - bedding them in (but without fading them) - then adjust them up snugly.

Post by **silly** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:52 pm

hi bmcosse
the stub axles are made from a steel that is higher tensile. i cant remember the name of it. there is a safety regulations observed and folowed.. they are 70$nz each

it doesnt look like any of the KIT plates use 12mm steel. it looks less then that and has reinforcement at the bolts in the form of heavy bushes...

anyway my question wrt to compensating for the longer axle with wheel backspacing stil stands.
IS the morris backspacing 100mm and is it reasonable engineering to increase this to 110 or more to compensate for the plate and longer axle..??
some of the puegeot wheels have backspacing of 110 or more..

alternately, i think i can mount the plate behind the face of the kingpin. using heavy bushes that slot into the space and weld these to a plate . i have seen KIT photos that appear to do this

wrt to welding.. apart from replacin the hole flaw i have to suffer the odd whole from weldin as the rust is everywher. replacin the hole flaw is not an option. the car will go to landfill before i pay 2k in body panels. so its either average welding or landfill.
anywa i can put some photos of the wledin up so use can take the p!ss out of it no worries ;)

btw i mentioned earlier i am changing the back axle to ford . it was advice from this forum i took to change everything at front to ford to match the back axle which i took..have you changed your mind ??

i just want to make it clear that this car is not going to be original or standard and the main reason i used a pretty well SCRAP car..
im doing it for practise with a hope that i will get a usable car.

to do a light engineering course would cost me 5k . the car will cost less then half of that and ill learn more IMO

i think it would be easier for some of Uk restorers to get a container and import your cars from NZ . there are literally thousands of them rotting away in paddocks and sheds. help yourselves

Post by **silly** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:58 pm

this sounds like an awful amount of work just to fit disc brakes. Far easier to simply overhaul the standard brakes - if in good condition they are perfectly fit for any sane road driving. .

it seems strange that you would say this mate.. the amount of work to change the stubs is minimal compared to the rust work. also i wanna drive this thing FAST. not only that the parts to overall moris brakes NEW are expensive. its far cheaper to make new stubs and use second hand ford parts then to replace with NEW minor parts

Post by **silly** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:02 pm

importing anything from the UK is too expensive. i checked bullmotif. the parts prices were reasonable but the shipping costs were very high..
if i was to look at kits or parts from the uk then my kids would go hungry.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:05 pm

Bon chance! As long as it's properly engineered - just the description of the welding/leaking torch/taped up etc didn't fill me with confidence. I make no comment on the stub axle change - save to say it's NOT something I would attempt. If you mount calipers on thin 6mm plate - I would expect them to vibrate/shudder/grab like mad - again that idea doesn't fill me with confidence .......

Post by **jonathon** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:10 pm

If the caliper bracket design is correct then 3mm will suffice. We run Cosworth discs and AP Racing 4 pots on our standard caliper brackets, with a conversion plate to radial mounting. So far we have no issues at all.

Post by **silly** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:20 pm

i starting to tear my hair out. LOL. jonathon it looks like your plate is thn and has heavy duty 12 to 15 mm bushes for the bolts and folds that wrap over the face of the kingpin to stiffen it...

i am(was) a master goldsmith btw so im not going to be happy with anything i do on a car. when i say blowing holes its might be 2 or 3 on a big panel. the point was the cheap mig torch was giving me problems as is panel thinning. my welding is not flash . i can do a perfect weld with the mig on new plate on a bench but welding upside down on a rusty car is another ball game

Post by **silly** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:24 pm

btw the whole point of this is to DO the WORK to learn how to engineer..
as a goldsmith somethings appear quite simply obvious. other things i have no clue.
believe it or not i thought 3 to 5 mm plate was the go and reinforce the bolt through areas. mounting behind the kingpin face seems a bit of a hassle tho.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:25 pm

3mm bracket! No stiffness at all then - but if it works - it amazes me. Yes - even I can do a good MIG weld downhand on clean steel!

Post by **silly** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:31 pm

well its a box really isnt it.

Post by **silly** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:25 am

so heres some pictures
welding part 1!

here is one of the ford diffs. i think off a van

the other ford diff

anyone know how to find out the ratio?

there is a rough kinda plan for the engineer for the axle perches. new stubs and mountng plate. note i made a mistake. i wrote that the perches have ten degrees but as jonothon said its 3 to 5 degrees. i changed that

if i use the ford plates and bolts on the back axle then i should make the perches as wide as the ford one..right??? but then the springs are narrower so they wold need someting there to locate them..

i measured that the centers on the perches of a morris axle are 1010mm apart , anyone care to confirm this?

the radius on the bolt centers on the kingpin is 39m

radius on the ford axle is 32mm

to mount the plate 6mm thick ( with baking plate at bolt holes) would move the centerline of the wheel outward 17mm. i can get puegeot wheels with 38 mm offset which would have a backspacing of 112..
so the centerline of the wheel would be out 5mm
is this a problem????

Post by **silly** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:29 am

actually the panel parts at bullmotif are very cheap... shipping is the bummer and import tax...
maybe i can save up and muck about with patches while im waiting for practise

Post by **silly** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:43 am

ruined two kingpins undoing the bottom trunions with the pins still in.
they are called swivel pins in the manual btw. i coudnt get the pins out and assumed the theads were bent or siezed, then relized the thread was strinping . i had to hold it in a vice to undo it with large wrench.. duh pretty stoopid yeah

Post by **silly** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:57 am

or were they just already striped. when i look down the trunion i cant see the pin.. i dont know. do you have to remove the pin to undo the lower trunion?
its a bit late to be asking this i know

Post by **jonathon** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:26 pm

bmcecosse wrote:3mm bracket! No stiffness at all then - but if it works - it amazes me. Yes - even I can do a good MIG weld downhand on clean steel!

The bracket is a formed one so is extremely strong plus its a two part bracket at the caliper fixing. We use this bracket with 280mm discs and AP 4 pot calipers and 310bhp on the track so I'm pretty confident in their abilities.
You will see that the kingpin mounting flange offers the major supprt and is almost equivalent in size to the areas requiring strength in the bracket.

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Post by **Stig** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:14 pm

silly wrote:or were they just already striped. when i look down the trunion i cant see the pin.. i dont know. do you have to remove the pin to undo the lower trunion?
its a bit late to be asking this i know

As you probably now suspect, yes you do need to remove the pin first. I've had to use considerable force to get a pin out of a trunion before - penetrating oil, hammers, drifts, swearing etc..

New kingpins have been unavailable for quite a while but suppliers should finally have them now.

Post by **mike.perry** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:32 pm

They are available if you know who to ask

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:26 pm

Thanks for the pic of that bracket Jono. Yes - that looks fine - I suspect most will just use a single flat bracket - hence my concern re 6mm thickness!
And yes - forcing the trunnion off like that will have ruined the threads- someone else did that recently - sometimes good to read the old threads - or the Workshop Manual!