If it's not one thing, it's another - starter problem?

Post by **Hellfish** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:46 pm

Last night my wife went out to start her '58 Minor (948) but it wouldn't comply. I'll try to translate for the starter... it would go chug-a-chug-a-chug- whirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. In other words, it would crank the motor a few times, then make this whirrrring sound. It almost sounds like the starter was suddenly disengaging from the flywheel, and the whirring sound was the starter just spinning with no resistence. It would do this over and over, each time cranking the motor a few times, the whirring.

Every once in awhile, it would keep cranking, but not fire. Then the next time it would crank and whirrr. I think it was doing it just to annoy me.

After a few hours of trying this, then working one something else, then trying again, then recharging the battery, and trying again, she got it to start, but it did the same thing after she shut it off and tried again.

Has anyone had this experience? Solutions? I'm thinking that my next step is to pull the starter and look at it's gear and the flywheel ring gear, bu I'm hoping there's a simpler solution before I tackle that.

Post by **bigjohn** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:51 pm

sounds to me the battery is down on power or theres a bad earth somewhere

Post by **mike.perry** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:56 pm

It sounds as though the engine is turning over on the starter and trying to fire. It is firing once and this is enough to throw the bendix out which is the whirring sound as it is still spinning. The cause may be a worn starter ring.
Try a tune up and service of the engine, plugs, points etc. which will encourage it to start easier and it a bit of luck the initial firing will be enough to start it. Alternatively you could start it on the handle, the extra electricity not being used by the starter will be available for the spark plugs.

Post by **Hellfish** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:34 pm

I get a good, strong, bright spark at the plugs. It doesn't really fire at all, it just turns the engine over 2-3 times, then whirrrr.

How do I start it at the handle? Do you mean hand crank it using the snout at the front of the engine? Is there a special handle for that, because I don't think we have one?

Post by **Hellfish** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:54 pm

She just called and said it fired up, she let it run for 5-10 minutes, shut it off and tried to start it again. Same whirr problem.

Not sure if that helps, but it may be another piece of the puzzle.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:06 pm

The 'whirr' is indeed the engine firing - and kicking the starter out of engagement - and then not picking up to run by itself. New plugs - and maybe retard the ignition timing slightly. She is pulling the choke out - yes ?

Post by **Hellfish** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:29 pm

yes, the choke is getting pulled out. Sometimes it fires right up, other times we get the whirr.

I was getting a good spark at the plugs, but I'll try putting new plugs in.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:33 pm

Would be worth getting a compression test run on the engine.

Post by **Hellfish** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:35 pm

I'll see if my tester will fit that block. Threads may not be the same.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:40 pm

Standard 14 mm thread.
Engine should be hot - battery fully charged - ALL spark plugs removed, and the throttle propped open during the test.

Post by **mike.perry** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:19 am

Try pulling the choke out by varying amounts. Fully in will be too weak for a cold engine and fully out may be too rich. Your engine may like somewhere in between.
The starting handle is the long bar with a crank and handle at one end and a short cross bar at the other, which is inserted through the hole in the front bumper and engages with the slot in the crankshaft pulley nut.
To start the engine turn the ignition on and give the engine a bit of choke. The engine turns over clockwise so insert the handle and grip it in your right hand with (important) your thumb over the top of the handle. This will prevent the starting handle from breaking your thumb if the engine kicks back. Turn the engine over until you can feel the compression on the downward stroke and then give the handle a sharp turn. With a bit of practice the engine should start and you will have a new party trick to show all your mates!

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:42 am

This too - should perhaps be a 'sticky'!

Post by **Hellfish** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:21 pm

Having a hand crank would be great. I'll have to keep an eye out for one at the swap meets. American cars stopped using them in the 1930s, I think.

bmcecosse wrote:The 'whirr' is indeed the engine firing - and kicking the starter out of engagement - and then not picking up to run by itself. New plugs - and maybe retard the ignition timing slightly. She is pulling the choke out - yes ?

Roy nailed it.

She put new plugs in and it fired right up and was back to running great. I guess the plugs had become fouled. She's going to drive it about 60 miles on Saturday. After that we'll tackle replacing the vacuum advance, tuning the carb back to normal, replacing all the wiring, hooking up gauges, etc.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:42 pm

Great success!

Post by **Hellfish** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:38 pm

She made it about 60 miles and the battery died on her! The one thing I didn't think about was the 10 year old battery! ha! I was working the show, so I sent some friends with a replacement and she made it the rest of the way. It ran great. It really stood out among the giant American cars and hot rods. People loved it.

I took it for a drive after the show, too. I think I'm going to have a lot of questions later, but for now, THANKS for all your help!
Joe

Post by **bmcecosse** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:05 pm

Strange it would run 60 miles - and then the battery died ?? Suggests the battery is not being charged. Better check it out.

Post by **mike.perry** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:31 pm

Ten years is long enough for a battery. Can you get batteries with correct posts over there?

Post by **bmcecosse** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:34 pm

Aye - but why would it last 60 miles and then die! Posts are the same in US of A - or at least they were when I lived there!

Post by **Hellfish** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:35 pm

Yeah, standard posts, you just hook them up backwards.

I think the battery was just wore out and eventually gave out. I cleaned all the corrosion off the terminals, but before she got it, the car probably sat for years at a time without being driven.

The charging system needs to be checked for sure, but I think that if it wasn't working, she wouldn't have made it that far. She got a jump and it restarted, but died again shortly afterwards. Put in another battery and she made it the rest of the way and the car fired up every time after that, and even sat in a traffic jam for an hour and did just fine.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:42 pm

Good news. Don't forget to put plenty of anti-freeze in the cooling system! I seem to remember it being quite chilly in Chicago during the winter!