Traders

Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:51 pm

The forum is an incredibly useful resource for all sorts of reasons, but lack of freedom of speech can be a bit of a pain.

As a newby to restoration, honest open advice and opinion on suppliers etc would be extremely useful, to save time and money that may otherwise be wasted on buying poor quality parts. As it stands any opinons must be done in secret through personal messages.

Surely it would be in the interest of "Promoting the preservation and use" if we had some way of recognising / highlighting the best suppliers.

As long as the club take the stance of "any views expressed on this board are not necessarily representative of the club itself", then what is the harm?

Hmmm, maybe I'll try to set up a poll.

Post by **LouiseM** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:58 pm

See my response to your other thread:

http://www.mmoc.org.uk/index.php?name=P ... ic&t=28118

The T&C's are there for a reason - nothing to do with restricting freedom of speech. Other (non Minor) forums have been shut down as a result of negative comments posted relating to traders. I'm sure that nobody would want the same thing to happen to this messageboard which, as you acknowledge, is an incredibly useful resource.

Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:19 pm

ah well, I tried.

Post by **Chris Morley** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:54 pm

ah well, I tried

Tried what? If you wish to try to indemnify the MMOC against expensive legal action taken by a disgruntled trader by pledging a huge sum of your money to the club for legal expenses then perhaps the policy will change? If not, ask yourself why you would expect a group of people, running the club in their own time (for no payment) to face that kind of threat on your behalf?

I'm afraid this club is bound by the realities of British law, as is everybody who posts on a web forum. It doesn't matter whether you agree with British law, this is the situation that all organisations currently face. Liability extends to statements made by individuals and to the service provider.

Have a look at this statement from the website of a UK firm of lawyers who specialise in defamation....

Experts In Defamation And Slander Advice
Defamatory allegations are made more often now than ever before, particularly by electronic means. But wherever the defamatory words appear, XXXX’s defamation team can tackle the problem, through specialist knowledge of:

Libel
Slander
Malicious falsehood
XXXX can also provide pre-publication advice in relation to statements made in:

Newspaper and magazine articles
Television and radio broadcasts
E-mails
Websites, including chat-rooms Employee references
Advertising material
This advice is highly valuable to businesses concerned about publishing statements that could result in allegations of defamation.

Our established defamation solicitors have acted for a wide range of businesses as well as prominent individuals, including:

A university defending an internet libel claim
A publicly listed engineering company pursuing a libel claim against a former employee
A prominent football club defending a claim brought by an ex-player
Securing public apologies in the national press on behalf of a number of companies

Post by **jonathon** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:07 pm

Whilst I'm in total agreement with the moderators on the issues affecting T and C's I can also sympathise with 'Arthur' ?. There is no system in place from the MMOC which offers new or existing members a way of finding out the relevance or track record of any of Minor specialist who advertise in their magazine or even those who do not.
I can see a confusion that adverts appearing in the club magazine can be seen as 'approved ' companies. I know it says that the club do not have a recommended list but there is an inferance that if a company is allowed to advertise then in must be a good one.
The traders working group was set up a few years ago to try and find a way in which the poor performing companies could be ommited from club magazine advertising, especially if the company had a CCJ against them for illegal or behaviour seen fit to recieve such a penalty from the courts.
I know of companies who currently have such an injunction against them and still advertise widly, including the club magazine.
The working group have not met for over a year and no stimulus has been offered by the MMOC because mainly they would loose substantial advertiseng revenue.
Its a shame that many members are simply walking into the same issues that many have already experienced from some traders and have no way to log their grievance to others.
The club is meant to take on board complaints against traders, but in reality very little if anything is done or achieved by this at the moment. Known 'bad' traders with CCJ's are still advertising in the magazine.
I feel that the 'working group' should be resurrected and given some 'teeth' with which a grading system such as that used by the MG oweners club. Companies with CCJ's or a poor track record would simply be banned from advertising in the club magazine and would be removed from a proposed list of Minor specialists, the inference being that you need to reach a certain standard in order to be listed.
Some will say, and have, that why should the club be involved in such matters, when the courts offer a method of recompence.
I feel that its the clubs responsibility to protect and inform its members in all aspects including suitable traders.

Post by **LouiseM** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:15 pm

I've split these posts from the "New Member?" thread as the purpose of the new member sticky is to give advice to new members about the site.

Post by **jonathon** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:18 pm

Good thinking

Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:26 pm

agreed to breaking it out..

the problem with "bad traders" is at what point does a trader become "bad"? one? two ? three? more? complaints.. A few years back I won a small claim against a morris minor centre.. does that make them a bad trader or a company that had a bad day and then did not resolve the problem?

Post by **webbnuts** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:42 pm

I'll register my complaint with the OC although as Jonathon says in the post I was typing this in that was locked mid type - why obtain the information if nothing is done with it. Its such a legal minefield these days. Perhaps we could do it using a secret code

To be honest I probably should have gone to trading standards for my complaint but i've spent so long cribbing about it its probably too late now!

Post by **jonathon** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:47 pm

Good points Charlie, which highlight the difficulty of collating and making sense of any complaints.
Its human nature that at some point mistakes are made and it would be unfortunate to earn a 'bad ' reputation for a one off incident.
With your specific case a CCJ is more than relevant in my opinion and carries great weight, I suppose however, it depends on wherter you think its the clubs responsibility, or duty of care for its members. ?

Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:49 pm

if you think you have a good case why not try the small claims court.. the cost is very low and whilst you can use lawyers neither side can counter claim on costs so you only pay the original court submission.

Post by **webbnuts** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:50 pm

I think if all the compaints were collected a pattern would soon appear! Whats more annoying is everyone knows who I am on about!

Post by **MColes** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:55 pm

Not meaning to antagonise. If we all know who you mean why do we need to start a poll or similar on the matter?

Post by **webbnuts** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:57 pm

For the sake of people who are new to the forum and looking to buy either a Minor or obtain spares.

Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:01 pm

go on webbnuts post another and you will get your century..

Post by **webbnuts** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:03 pm

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAL!

Post by **LouiseM** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:04 pm

As I have already suggested, if anyone new to the forum wishes to seek opinions on traders / specialists etc they are welcome to post here and ask. Positive responses can be posted. Other opinion and comments can be sent via pm. I don't know why some people seem to not want to do this as it takes no more time to type a pm then it does to post a message.

Post by **webbnuts** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:09 pm

Hi Louise. I think the attraction of a post is the fact its visable to everyone but I understand your comments.

I'll start by recommending the Birmingham Morris Minor place, and JLH - they are both ace!

Post by **MColes** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:09 pm

Because people just have to try and fight the system. Rules are there for breaking ???

Post by **jonathon** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:16 pm

One needs to bare in mind that some traders read this forum and might not take the same view. So mentioning specific names re negative comments should be avoided, subtle hints are fine in my book though, but just be carefull as we do not want to loose this resorce