Which 5 Speed Gearbox to fit...?

[Oddball67]

I'm in the proces of collecting all sorts of items for the restoration of a Austin Pick-Up which will receive an MG 1275 engine and a suitable 5 Speed gearbox along with a suitable diff. (3.7 or 3.9)

The choice seems to be between 2 makes of which there are pro and cons for both.

1) Ford type 9 gearbox. Pro's - Easy to get hold of and kits are readily available. Con's. Very heavy

2) Toyota 5 Speed. Pro's - Light and possibly smoother than the Ford. Con's. Obtaining a kit, propshaft clutch etc is difficult.

Can any one offer any advice about the two? I driven a vehicle with a Ford and this appeared fine but, I've heard more rewarding reports about the Toyota.

Can you give you comments and, if I were to go with the Toyota do any of you have a kit or some parts required to fit?

Cheers

[charlie_morris_minor]

it will be no more difficult to get hold of a prop for either installation..

not so sure about the fitting kit for the toyota on to a 1275. I would think it would be far easier to get a type 9 gearbox than a 5 speed toyota box because the toyota box will mate up to the toyota 4age engine which is popular with kit cars. so it might simply come down to availability of box more than anything else

[bmcecosse]

The standard 4 speed box -used with a 3.7 diff is fine, and a whole lot less trouble and cost than a 5 speed box !

[charlie_morris_minor]

if you are covering a lot of miles on a motorway / dual carriageway a 5 speed box makes sense and is worth the expense.

[Oddball67]

What about the final drive between the 4 and 5 speed?

I thought they would be different in order to reduce revs?

Getting hold of the propshaft for both an bell housing etc in OK. I've already located these parts but, I'm unsure about fitting the Toyota box and what's need to fit it? I feel getting the clutch items may be restrictive?

[bmcecosse]

My Trav cruises very nicely with 3.7 diff - and standard box - and it's just a warmed up 1098. Certainly not 'holding up traffic' - quite the reverse! A 1275 will obviously be even better.

[cormorant]

I run a 3.7 diff now and it is indeed a huge improvement and not expensive. This is on a standard 1098 too though I do intend to lightly tune it. There is a difference though as the 5 speed box gives I think a 20% reduction in gearing as opposed to about 12% for the 3.7.
Mind you it's £100 (s/h) against about £700-£900 and a couple of hours work as against a complete weekend(or more) I would imagine.

[Jefftav]

My own xperience was that the toyota box and assorted parts were too much hassle to source, no body seems to sell the kit. If you do get one make sure you get the xmember and propshaft or at least the front part then you can make a custom propshaft to fit. I have instructions for fitting this kit, PM me your details if you want these.

The ford type 9 is the easier of the two to source parts for and the boxes are very common.

[bigjohn]

there was a lad from rotherham selling a kit for the toyota 5 speed on ebay wanted £400/£500 just for the kit then an extra £300 for the gearbox??????
think i will stick with the 4 speed thank you

[IslipMinor]

I have the Toyota T50 behind a 1380 and use a 3.9 diff.

The kit used to be quite easily available, but no longer. You will need a number of 'special' parts:

Bell housing
Clutch release arm support bracket
Clutch cross-shaft support bracket (unless using a hydraulic conversion)
Gearbox cross member
Clutch driven plate - there was a special version for each engine/clutch size, the 1275 uses an AP plate, still available as CP2323-11

Modified Toyota parts:

T50 gear lever - can use as standard (ugly!) or cut off top and weld on a Minor top part of the lever to give a 'standard' Minor look

Standard Toyota parts:

Gearbox rear mounting
Front UJ to mate to a shortened Minor prop shaft

Modified Minor parts:

Transmission tunnel - slight reshaping and moving the gear lever 'hole'

Standard Minor parts:

Clutch release arm
Complete mechanical clutch operating mechanism

[charlie_morris_minor]

just to add a bit ( well i have done the calculations now so i might as well play with them and use them)..

all calcs are based on 145/R14 tyres

if you run a 1098 gearbox with a 4.22 dif 60 - 65 equates to around 3750 - 4000 rpm in fourth

if you run a 1098 gearbox with a 3.7 dif 60 - 65 equates to 3250 - 3500 rpm in fourth or 3750 - 4000 gives you 70 - 75

if you run a ford 5 speed with a 4.22 dif 60 - 65 equates to 3000 - 3250 rpm in fifth or 3750 - 4000 gives you 75 - 80

for the sake of completeness a 5 speed with a 3.7 dif 60 - 65 equates to 2650 - 2900 rpm in fifth or 3750 - 4000 gives you 85 - 90

as for cost..

brum moggy centre charge 380 + vat for the kit i got a type 9 box from a scrap yard last year for 50 inc vat so you are looking at less than 500 unless the kit does not contain a prop shaft in which case you need to allow another 150 ish. and i can not see the kit coming up on ebay too often

brum moggy centre charge 295 + vat for a 3.7 dif so just less than 350. or if you go on ebay they seem to sell for around 100 - 150

[bmcecosse]

Yes -3.7 diffs have gone up recently! I wonder why?? Maybe something to do with relentless 'plugging' on here! Mine was £75 - earlier this year. Speedo to match was £5.

[Kevin]

Yes -3.7 diffs have gone up recently! I wonder why??

Well down south they have made over a £100 for the last 10 years or so.

[Bazzalucas]

Has anyone ever tried any other 5-speed gearboxes? I'm thinking of Mazda MX-5/Miata, or one of the little Japanese pickup trucks? (Those are probably more common here than in the UK). It always seems as though the discussion always comes down to the the two mentioned above.

[bmcecosse]

My 3.7 diff came from 'down south' - only after some prodding by my local Police Force, which 'encouraged' the seller to deliver what I had paid for!

[jonathon]

It always seems as though the discussion always comes down to the the two mentioned above.

This is only due to the fact that they have been fitted for the past 20 years due to kits being made available from the Minor specialists. the Fiat TC also has a 5 spd box, but these are becoming hard to find now , and are reasonably expensive to recon. The Ford box is the box of choice for the Minor and probably will be for another decade or so. Or until another box is found, by which time we will all be looking for a replacement for the Escort/Ital/ and Volvo axles.

[Oddball67]

Thanks for all you comments, very helpful but I'm still undecided.

As it is, I already have a 3.7 diff. Paid £75 for it some time ago.
I also already have a ford 5 speed that I accquired some time ago for £10 including the yoke and, before you say it probably needs reconditioning, it doesn't, I drove the car it was in.
Going the Ford route will obviously be the less expensive for me but I just wanted to keep it fairly light. What about the clutch set-up, does the Birmingham kit work well or is there alternatives?

I haven't given up on the Toyota option yet, just want to do the right thing for the Pick-Up.

Talking about future engines, gearboxes and axles, surely the MX5 has got to be considered...?

[bmcecosse]

If you have the 3.7 diff, then I suggest the 'overdrive' top gear of a 5 speed box will be all but useless! 3.7 diff works well - but wouldn't want to go any higher on the gearing!

[jonathon]

I'm not a great fan of the B'ham clutch route, we prefer to fit the full Ford clutch and a concentric clutch release, its much smoother and tidier.
Don't like the somewhat frail crossmember either.
The Mazda motor and box are obvious contenders and should be a nice conversion, however they require much reworking of the bulkhead and strengthening of key areas, much of which will be beyond the average DIY'r
Agree BM 3.7 diff and 5 speed on a 1098 or even a 1275 would be a mare to drive. We have found the 4.1 or 4.4 Escort ratio's to be well suited to the type 9. Our supercharged Zetec runs a 4.1 which is exciting, although a 3,54 is on order for higher top end speed.

[bmcecosse]

And just how 'high' will that top speed be ???