speed cameras

Post by **daveallgood** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:31 am

Driving home last night after a Branch meeting I failed to notice a speed camera, which flashed as I went past. Probably doing over 50 in a 40 limit; not sure. So I'm anticipating a fine and points on my licence (first time ever). Has anyone here successfully contested such a fine?

Post by **bmcecosse** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:36 am

Maybe it won't show up on old style number plates! And, just maybe they won't believe a Minor can speed!
But if you were speeding - you deserve to be fined! That's why the camera is there - to enforce the speed limit which has been imposed for safety reasons !! Or so they would have us believe.

Post by **MColes** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:39 am

I think they do show up on old style plates as I was talking to a moggy driver the other week who had been caught by one of those mobile camera van.

My sister-in-law contested a few years back and they sent her a picture from the camera. It showed the number plate and her singing along to the radio

Post by **PSL184** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:02 pm

It is very difficult to contest the fixed Gatso and Truvello cameras as they are callibrated and set to pre determined speeds. The road markings are there so that the operator can determine your exact speed by counting the number of markings you have travelled between the 2 pictures. Did the camera flash twice? If only one flash then they can't prove what speed you were travelling at. One other get out is you proving that your speedo is faulty and that you weren't aware of this until the fine landed on your doorstep and you then checked the calibration of your speedo. All the fines are sent out at the operators discretion so you can always pray that the person who processes the camera data is either sympathetic to classic cars or has made their quota for the day already !!!

Post by **plastic_orange** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:06 pm

You just have to hope the revenue gatherer wasn't loaded with film. However, how did you miss that the camera was there? I don't think you will be successful with an appeal, but I'd contest any from the so called safety camera vans - they are of dubious accuracy, plus the photos they produce are not of the best quality - certainly not good enough to identify someone from (in my experience - as I've had to go to the camera centre to possibly identify a Fire Service employee).

Pete

Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:17 pm

the "I did not know my speedo was inaccurate" defense will not work..sorry to say

Post by **daveallgood** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:19 pm

It was dark, raining and I didn't see it. No excuse I know. I only noticed one flash. Why would it not have flashed twice? Re post on 'when to change up', it's a good job I wasn't doing 80 in third gear

Post by **PSL184** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:32 pm

daveallgood wrote: Why would it not have flashed twice?

Sometimes thay flash once randomly I guess as a warning? I drive the M40/M42 corridor daily and I see many of those cameras just flash once at random intervals.....

Incidentally, Minor speedo's generally read high so you may not have actually been going as fast as you think - unless of course you have got a calibrated speedo? If you are less than 8mph over the speed limit you might get an invitation to complete a speed awareness course which you have to pay for (same cost as the fine) but won't give you points on your license.....

Post by **PSL184** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:35 pm

charlie_morris_minor wrote:the "I did not know my speedo was inaccurate" defense will not work..sorry to say

It's got to have a chance - esp in an old car where it could be proven to be inaccurate (not the levels of sophistication to those fitted in new cars). I read about a guy who got off a ticket in a Model T Ford because he didn't have a speedo fitted (not fitted when new) and argued that he couldn't be reasonably expected to know his speed.....

Post by **StaffsMoggie** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:38 pm

Was it a rear or forward facing camera? The gatsos are usually rear facing and go off after you have passed them. If you drive towards one and it goes off the car is nornally out of range of the second flash.

Post by **daveallgood** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:04 pm

Foward facing. One of only four permanant digital cameras in Cumbria so I've just read.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:23 pm

Rear facin Gatso will often flash even when they've run out of film.

Front facing cameras are less likely to flash falsely, and are more likely to catch people! At least with a rear facing camera you get a chance to slow down when you see it!

Post by **bmcecosse** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:51 pm

I didn't know there are 'forward facing' cameras? Surely the flash must be blinding at night! And at least up here - the cameras are all painted with bright stripes to give you a 'fair chance' to see them. Mobile vans etc are of course NOT obvious (always white!) - and are often parked on over bridges - so beware. The demo I have seen of a mobile van (they attend some car shows) showed extremelly good picture quality! They are VERY active in Dumfries !!

Post by **MarkyB** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:34 pm

Keep your fingers crossed for a couple of weeks.
I'd also heard that gatsos etc. can't read black and white plates but it could be an urban legend.
One flash is hopeful, were there more Lane?
I've thought I'd been flashed but it was the bloke in the other lane

.

Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:37 pm

I suppose it depends the speed the guy was doing in his model T as his car did not have a speedo if he was 4 or 5 miles over it might wash but 20 miles over i would doubt it would wash.

if the "my speedo is inaccurate" excuse worked the world and his wife would use it.. and they do not. The bases of your claim is "ignorance" in as much i was "ignorant" of my actual speed because something that i am responsible for was telling me something different.. and as we all know "ignorance" is no defence in law.

Post by **aupickup** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:25 pm

are u aware that not all speed cameras are operational, they may flash but thats all

20% of speed cameras in the thames valley are not operational tho they still flash

so you may be lucky

and of cousre you were breaking the law so accept the penalty

Post by **PSL184** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:25 pm

The basis of my claim would not be ignorance I was relying on an instrument which was in fact giving me a false reading. I could not reasonably be expected to be able to calibrate the instrument as I would be expected to have the necesary equipment (who does??) The only down fall to this is that Sat Nav might be a counter argument!!!.

There also seems to be some confusion as to the ability for cameras to read black on silver plates - The answer is they can in the same way that any camera can....

Also, if it was a front facing camera it will be Truvello which doesn't flash. Only Gatso's flash and they take a picture from behind so the flash would have been from a car coming towards you and not your car - Certainly the case as far as I know......

Post by **bmcecosse** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:31 pm

Yes - I KNOW they are not allowed to flash in your face!
It's the car owner's responsibility to have the speedo operational (yet it's not required for MOT!) and correctly calibrated I think within 5 %. No excuses there - except indeed the ancient car that never had a speedo!!

Post by **mike.perry** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:36 pm

I've got a photo of my Series MM with the trailer on the back (black and white no. plate) doing 15mph through a red light in Northampton.
It was one of those situations where the lights changed as I approached them and I hit the brakes. I then thought "This isn't going to stop in time" so I went back on to the accelerator. Wrong decision. I think the points run out next May.

Post by **PSL184** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:39 pm

Off 'tinternet.....
Vehicle construction and use regulations require a vehicle speedometer accuracy to be in the range of -0->+10%. The implications are that it must never under-read - for obvious reasons - but may over-read. As the cost of manufacturing a speedometer with -0% error would be very costly they all over-read by a few percent without exception. Even if speed is measured correctly the display may not be accurate, so a speedometer error is allowed. Because of this, the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) have an official formula for calculating a speeding offence. It allows a leeway of 10% plus 2mph. In reality, most speed traps are triggered at higher speeds than this because if they were set bang-on those guidelines, the sheer amount of paperwork generated would overrun the police speeding departments.