Morris Vedette Engine

Post by **mike.perry** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:27 am

Many years ago I aquired a 1948 Morris Vedette marine engine which was doing duty as a barn door stop. Having got it home and struggled with two of us to get it out of the car I decided that what it needed was a set of casters so that I could move it around, meanwhile with a great deal of struggling it was pushed under the workbench behind my generator engine and almost forgotten about.
Yesterday I found the casters I had been looking for and fitted them to the engine so I can now push it around the garage.
The Vedette is the marine version of the car engine, in this case the Morris 8 s/v, the later Vedettes were A Series engines. As can be seen from the photo it is considerably different to the car engine, having an enclosed timing and water pump arrangement and magneto ignition. The head looks the same as on the generator engine except for the large diameter D16 spark plugs.
From looking at the state of the water passages it is unlikely that the engine will be restorable to more than cosmetic but now that I can move it around I intend stripping it down to see what the internals look like.
If anyone has any knowledge of these engines or any literature I would be grateful for any information.

Post by **RobThomas** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:24 am

Hmmmm. Cam-drive waterpump for the exhaust and a revcounter? Maybe that is where that MM revcounter gauge came from that was shown on here a while ago?

Lucas SR4 magneto, too. Quite common on aircraft engines on PFA/LAA aircraft conversions. Mine used to have them until I 'went electronic'.

Post by **mike.perry** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 11:56 am

Being a marine engine it has a water cooled exhaust and obviously has no speedo hence the rev counter which would probably only read to 3000rpm.
Do you know anything about magnetos or have any literature on the parts?
I took the starter off and tested it and it works fine, and I have taken the head off which was choked with rust which I have managed to suck out with the vacuum cleaner. The block looks pretty rusted up too.
The next task is to get the front timing cover off to have a look and then try to get the engine to turn over by hand after I have poured some oil down the bores and around the bearings

Post by **RobThomas** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 3:46 pm

There seems to be a large number of SR4 variations around and there are quite a few people specialising in SR4 rebuilds. BMC used them on lots of tractors. No battery required to run them! generally they either run or they are dead. Much simpler to use than coil ignition but much less power since they run at a fixed (usually 24 to 28 degree) timing and are thus an absolute sod to start (propswinging) unless you have one with an "Impulse coupling" which retards the timing below a certain rpm to allow for starting.

I don't have much info on them but I have a few new ones on the shelf of the garage where they are likely to stay until I buy another aeroplane.

Starting an aircraft with mags...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNv3EoL1 ... re=related

Myself, running with electronics rather than SR4 mags.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqw8ZcI0eEw

Guess which is easier!

Post by **MarkyB** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:34 pm

No contest!
Do the engines run in opposite directions?

Post by **RobThomas** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:41 pm

The VW is unusual since the prop hub is bolted to the wrong end which means it rotates in the oposite direction. The flywheel is removed and replaced with the alternator from a motorbike and the old VW alternator pulley is traded for a home-made prop hub adaptor. The nose bearing on the VW is barely able to cope with the loads under normal conditions and is liable to fail (as in EPIC FAIL) if the prop goes out of balance. I built my engine for about £500 whilst a 'proper' aero engine costs 12 to 15 thousand.

Post by **MikeNash** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:06 pm

Hurry Mike! just spotted this!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Morris-Vedette-Vi ... 286.c0.m14

(Why doen't it come up bloo?)

Post by **mike.perry** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:09 pm

Cheers for that Mike, it looks like a later 948 A Series Vedette c/w epicyclic gearbox. which looks as though it would fit the side valve engine as well. It doesn't look to be in running order!!!!
I rebuilt one the same as that when I was in the army. I had all the parts laid out on the barrack room table for a room inspection!. The SSM wasn't too pleased but as everything was immaculately clean there was not a lot he could do about it. I don't think he could find anything in Queens Regs that covered it.

Post by **Kevin** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:04 am

Well while you are on a run Mike what about these

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Morris-Vedette-Ma ... 286.c0.m14

I have asked for photo's and will post them later so you can see if anything is of use.

Post by **mike.perry** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:27 am

Cheers Kevin, I think the Mk2 is the same as mine but I had better resist the urge to start a collection although I wouldn't mind a gearbox. The photos would be useful for comparison and I could do with a set of Champion D16 plugs (the big ones).

Rob, Could you tell me which plug lead is which on the magneto?

Post by **Kevin** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:50 pm

Here you go Mike this is what I have been sent

Post by **mike.perry** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:07 pm

Hi Kevin, that is the same engine as Mike Nash showed on ebay a couple of days ago. It is a 948 A Series, a bit later than a Mk II I would have thought. A few extra interesting views though, note the distributor on the flywheel housing. The confusing thing is that Mike's engine was advertised in Exmouth and attracted a bid of 99p and this time it is in Bristol with a starting price of £50. Is someone after a quick profit?
Whilst my engine was used as a barn door stop this one looks as though it has been used as an anchor!

Post by **RobThomas** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:59 am

Mags are a bit like distributors in that you only have to set the rotor to point at the correct lead. TDC on the power stroke etc etc, just like a distibutor. Since there is not advance curve on the mag, you'll need to set it to something like 24 degrees to get it to both run and start. Too little and it won't run very well and too much advance and it will be a bu66er to start. Finding the timing marks might be a bit of a problem. Trial and error might be a good option?

These guys have some spares and a manual.

http://www.thamesengines.co.uk/2.html

Post by **mike.perry** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:36 pm

Thanks Rob,
I have just ordered a set of D16 plugs and I wanted to connect up the correct leads. As the engine won't turn over at the moment it is a bit difficult to set No 1 at suck squeeze BANG blow or is it suck squeeze PUFF wheeze for a side valve? I will eventually strip the engine down when I can work out the best way to get the timing cover off, that is if the bolts haven't seized completely.
I have contacted the website you have suggested three weeks ago but as yet have not had a reply. As the page is 15 months out of date things do not look too promising.

Post by **Keith** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:57 pm

Mike, You need a replacement engine, get it going and put it in your series MM. Now that would be new

Post by **alanworland** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:33 pm

With Derrington exhaust manifold!

Post by **Keith** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:05 pm

it would have to be a good copy of one.....

Post by **Kevin** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:47 pm

Looks like I was sent the cheaper pictures first Mike as I have just been sent the £50 version and its complete with gearbox according to the ad and in much better condition with a choice.

Post by **RobThomas** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:00 pm

I've got a spare Vedette head (new) you can have if you buy them.

Post by **mike.perry** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:17 pm

That is more like mine. Have you got any more photos?
I think that I had better resist the urge to buy any more engines especially as I would need a boat to put it in, besides I am going to need the money for the engine in the MM.
The Vedette cylinder head is virtually the same as the generator head except for the 18mm plugs and I believe that it also fits the Nuffield President tractor