My weekend... Gearbox - Oil & filling

Post by **salty_monk** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 8:37 pm

Hi Guys,

Just finished a long weekend of jobs...
New fuel pump (old one stuck last week, freed it off & got it running but wasn't right... Was a Harris pump if that means anything to anyone...)

New fuel hose, New heater pipes & full flush to system with Bars after leaving it in there 48 hours. (You should have seen the muck that came out...).
Replaced the water pump, top & bottom rad hoses & the annoying little hose between the block & the water pump. Connected heater up so that it is feeding from the bottom & exiting at the top - Still weak on the heat output at tickover... nice & strong when you rev it though... Any thoughts? Willie? Seemed nice & clear when running the hose up the pipes so shouldn't be any restrictions. Perhaps the valve is partially blocked?

So on to the oily bits... New oil, new filter (thanks for the back-up call Ray! Much better than Haynes; re-read the manual & you were right about which way to put the pressure plate, CONCAVE down so the lump sticks up & centralises the filter element).
Adjusted the rockers, took off the valve chest plate & rocker cover (obviously) & cleaned out all the breathers - pretty choked up which explains all the white mush in the top of the cover!

So... after that little lot (plus fitting a new choke cable, new wiper arms & blades & gearstick gaitor (already done once but split again after 6 weeks, FOC replacement though..) I checked the gearbox oil level.

It's not too bad, perhaps 5mm below the threads so I assume it's not too desperate but it is pretty filthy.

And on to the main question.... 20/50 engine oil ok?? Any tips for filling it without drenching your carpets in oil (just a funnel or anyone have anything more ingenious???).
Also, anything I should watch out for when draining the gearbox oil?

Cheers!

Post by **rayofleamington** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:25 pm

For filling the gearbox I use a spent container of gearbox oil, refilled with engine oil.
The best containers ones are 1 litre and have a very long flexible neck - ideal for filling gearboxes.

The gearbox oil itself (eg EP80 / EP90) can be used for filling the rear axle and for lubricating the steering rack.

Post by **Matt** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 11:26 pm

Hmm a harris pump........... in our family a harris job means a bodge! your hampster probably died!

Post by **salty_monk** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 11:58 pm

Don't really understand why the minors use Engine oil in the box, is there any sense to it? Surely an anti foaming gearbox oil would be better if it was designed for it. Can anyone explain it?
I believe the trend was continued for quite some time too... Metro's had gearboxes that were joined in to the engines oilways I believe & shared the oil.....

Post by **Chris Morley** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 12:43 am

I seem to recall posts stating that certain specialised gearbox oils could damage later Minor gearboxes but I can't remember which & how (copper/bronze components?). I'm sure Willie will put me right if my memory isn't so good...

Otherwise I would stick with 20w/50 unless you can find an oil recommended by a Minor specialist.

Draining the gearbox is dead easy and re-filling is easy enough with the right socket head and a 4-6 inch extension bar. Re-filling with a long necked funnel is simple as long as you dribble it in slowly (having pulled the carpet away from the access hole). Again from memory, I think it takes 1.25 litres of oil.

Post by **57traveller** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 9:05 am

I've owned a couple of Peugeots and the gearbox used same oil as engine. So it's probably not uncommon.
Remember to remove the filler plug before the drain, same with rear axle. It's a bit embarrasing to first drain the oil and then find the filler plug is stuck.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 10:17 am

Don't really understand why the minors use Engine oil in the box, is there any sense to it?

There must be some sense somewhere - the oild visocsity will be a major part and will affect how it gets into bearings, synchro hubs etc..
I would guess EP80 is far too thick and doesn't get where it needs to go.

I find the problem with using a funnel is that you struggle to see when the box is full until the oil runs onto the floor, usually when you half filled the funnel

The advantage of the gearbox-oil 'style' containers with the long flexi neck is that you still have good visibility and as soon as you stop squeezing it stops filling

- Very useful for impatient people like me who would get half a cup of oil on the garage floor every time they used a funnel.

Post by **newagetraveller** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 10:34 am

Still weak on the heat output at tickover... nice & strong when you rev it though... Any thoughts?

Do the headlights get brighter when you rev it up?

Is it one of those heaters that relies on an electric fan to push the air out?

If so then your battery may need charging up.

Post by **salty_monk** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 11:48 am

Hi New Age... Yes they do (and proceed to do so at tickover even with a fully charged battery) but it's nothing to do with electrics... It has the external hose for bringing in fresh air as well as the fan.

Sit at tickover with a warm engine then switch the electric fan on, it will blow cold after about 20 seconds or so, if you then rev the engine it comes back nice & warm again.. The inlet house never goes cold though so it must be something to do with it passing through the heater, I did consider trying it connected the opposite way. At the moment I have the feed in (from the heater valve) to the bottom so it's pushing the water up....

The gearbox oil itself (eg EP80 / EP90) can be used for filling the rear axle and for lubricating the steering rack

Ray, how much fluid does the axle take approx? Also how do you go about lubricating the steering rack? Is there specific points to lube or is a "coat liberally" job??

Found a blow on the exhaust where it joins the manifold (from behind the clamp) last night too - another job to do... They never seem to stop on this car... Mind you I think it is having the more use & the more money spent on it than it's had in years...

One more question... Car runs much better now but doesn't start quite so easy (by this I mean maybe I will have to try twice instead of it firing instantly so no big deal) after fitting the new fuel pump. This also coincides with moving the air filter round a bit to "summer setting"; anything I should know??

Post by **57traveller** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 12:26 pm

Rear axle/diff. takes 1 1/2 pints (0.85 litre) of EP90.
The steering rack lubrication point is under the carpet on the passenger side. If you peel back the carpet etc. from the bulkhead underneath the parcel shelf there should be a blanking (about 15mm diameter) grommet , if not there's a hole. A conventional push on type grease nipple should be visible. About 10 pumps is recommended with a pressure grease/oil gun fitted with a flexible pipe. I have a cheap gun which I use for this purpose, saves the trouble of cleaning out your grease gun each time!

Post by **salty_monk** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 1:28 pm

Thanks! Have often wondered if there is any danger of "over filling" the lubrication points through the grease nippples or if it will just naturally purge any excess??

Presumably the steering rack is the same??

Whilst we're talking about getting lubed up.... Is it hydraulic jack oil that's recommended for the dampers? Reckon ours must be pretty low or it's all leaked out...as it bounces 2 or three times after a good push on the wing but maybe this is normal for standard setup & I'm expecting too much.....

Thanks once again!

Post by **rayofleamington** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 1:35 pm

as it bounces 2 or three times

sounds like it may have all leaked out

normally the damper looks wet if they are leaky though.

2 or 3 bounces is normally an MOT failure - though I am sure it depends how hard you shove the car. I once had an MOT tester nearly get the car on 2 wheels, and then say - it didn't stop moving withing the allowed 1 and a bit bounces...
Testing it his way 90% of cars would fail - I cut my losses and found somewhere else for a sensible MOT

Post by **Matt** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 2:08 pm

I have fluid in mine and it bounces 2 or three times..... it has done for ages but never failed and MOT. Time to get some new front shocks when I go home!

Post by **57traveller** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 2:52 pm

Yes, hydraulic jack oil is o.k. for the dampers or motor cycle fork oil. SEA 20 viscocity or thereabouts.

I usually pump in grease until clean stuff starts to squeeze out. Don't do that when pumping oil into the steering rack, 10 pumps only.

Post by **Chief** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 5:02 pm

another job to do... They never seem to stop on this car... Mind you I think it is having the more use & the more money spent on it than it's had in years...

welcome to the world of Morris Minors

I know JUST how you feel. (and I would imagine most other people here too):D

Post by **rayofleamington** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 5:22 pm

Usually the hard work fades off after the first year
I had a few unexpected jobs (thermostat, dynamo, battery, petrol pump points, master cylinder) to do on Riley in the first 6 months as he hadn't been well maintained by the previous owner. I think it was dealer serviced on a 'if it's not broken yet I can't afford to fix it yet' level.
For the MOT last summer, it got serviced and passed 1st time. It hasn't needed any repairs for over a year now! Apart from the early stuff it has been excellent!

Post by **Theo** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 6:06 pm

6 years ago we took the money for our Tourer from savings we had in shares. Feeling not sure it was the right thing to do (shareprices were increasing every day that time). Now it is the best investment we did in years. The shares are less worth now, and the Morris at least kept it's value.

Maybe it's time for the next ....

Post by **Willie** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:35 pm

Have just read these posts re gearbox oil and worry that some
of you may have got the wrong end of the stick re the grade of
oil? Only the earliest Minors use EP 80/90 oil in the gearboxes, all
the later types use engine oil,(20/50) or,nowadays,15/40 is more
commonly available. CHRIS re the damage caused by the
additives in EP OIls used in rear axles.....Castrol have informed me
that these additives do indeed gradually damage the thrust washers
used in the Planet wheels. This does not apply to modern cars
which use STEEL washers which are completely unaffected by the
additives. An alternative,less injurious Oil is made by Castrol
which is also thicker so would quieten down the axle, but it is only
available in about 20 gallon packs so I gave that one a miss! I did
pass this info on to the M G Owners Club thinking that they would
buy it in bulk and sell it in 1 litre containers but nothing happened!

Post by **salty_monk** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:15 am

To go back to the steering rack again... how often should it be done & will I do any damage if I put 10 pumps in now even though I don't know when it was last done??

The grease on uprights, prop etc is every 6k (or is it 3k) right?

Post by **rayofleamington** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:52 am

The grease on uprights, prop etc is every 6k (or is it 3k) right?

The suspension needs doing every 3K (or 1.5K to be more safe), and if the car is low mileage it helps to do it every 3 months. Even on a low mileage car, after 3 months you find the old grease comes out full of muck. Putting fresh stuff in reduces the 'grinding paste' effect, and I keep putting it in until the clean stuff comes out. Then I give it 6 full locks on the stering and repeat - I hope that helps the fresh grease get where it needs to go on the threads. The pivot pin bush also has a grease groove but this tends not to feed grease after it gets a bit old.

The 10 pumps frequency for the steering rack seems to be a mystery. If you service every 3 months on a car that does a thousand miles a year it will get a lot of oil per mile... If you do it every 6 thousand miles on a car that does 3K per year it won't get much.
I guess it stops the rack running dry however I've only recently started doing them.

I had a bit of a long running oversight there!
Maybe I was lucky that I'd never had a problem before, but I would guess a lot of cars never get the rack lubricated.