Stupid Scrappage Scheme - when will it end?!

[Furrtiv]

My rather young (20-year-old) work colleague today scrapped, not a Minor, thankfully, but a 1980s Micra. And for what? A modern, shiny, nasty new Corsa that he'll probably be bored with before he's finished paying the finance off.
I wouldn't mind so much if the cars were to be sold, or even broken for parts, but no, they have to be crushed - just what good is it doing the environment to crush a perfectly useable car only to replace it with a brand new one that has an even bigger carbon footprint from its recent manufacture? Added to this, this scheme is only helping those with the credit to buy a brand new car anyway (I know I couldn't afford two hundred quid a month after all my bills to pay for a car) and it's also encouraging people to get into debt at a very bad time for money borrowing.
Also, everyone seems brainwashed into believing this claptrap about older cars being less environmentally friendly and more dangerous than newer cars - but if any car does over 35mpg and runs on standard unleaded, isn't that good? And surely the longer the lifespan, the lesser the impact of the so-called carbon footprint of said car?

I know that I am preaching to the choir here, but when will this madness end? Has anyone else had the urge to write to their MP about this (as we can do FA else, it seems)? Are we classic enthusiasts the only people who can truly see through this miasma of foolishness?

For what it's worth, I did find out which dealership the old Micra was being taken to and tried to find a way to save it, but no, they all have to be crushed. Utterly ludicous! And the lady at the dealership did sympathise, she said that there had been some "quite decent cars" coming in for scrapping. I find it shameful that my government - even though I didn't vote for the current incumbents - advocates such disgusting waste.

I even offered to buy the Micra off its owner, who cheekily asked for two grand - he honestly thought that he was going to get that as money back! The fool! I will take great pleasure next week at work in reminding him of the two grand he's lost from his new Corsa's value simply by driving it off the forecourt, and that half of that scrappage scheme money he. as a taxpayer, has already paid for. And then there's the interest the dealership will be clawing back from him, so in the end he'll have been lucky to have saved even five hundred quid on his new car, let alone two grand. He may even be in negative equity with the depreciation!

But seriously, I feel that this is an utter waste; I had friends who, only a few months ago, were begging for a cheap car because they needed one and couldn't get together more than a couple of hundred quid. It disgusts me that older cars are being wasted in this way in the name of environmentalism, when in reality it's doing the environment no good whatsoever to have piles of metal and plastic cubes lying around.

The whole thing is a compete shambles.

[bmcecosse]

Well said! Fancy standing for Parliament ?? Good expenses I hear, and a great Pension scheme!

[Mick_Anik]

"Has anyone else had the urge to write to their MP about this?"

That's the way to go. It's the way democracy works. I share your sentiments totally.

Have you written? I should, although I'm not in Britain I could, but I know I won't. I'm rapidly becoming middle-aged, and there is so much about the world that these days borders on the ridiculous. I did what I could to change the world, and, overall, seem to have failed.

I hand down the mantle.

One has a choice what to do with one's time and energy - try googling the number of children who die every day from drinking dirty water. To me, this more than any other issue, reflects our absolute patheticness as a species.

To the moderators, this is my first and last statement which could in any way be construed to be political.

[Sidney'61]

I will take great pleasure next week at work in reminding him of the two grand he's lost from his new Corsa's value simply by driving it off the forecourt, and that half of that scrappage scheme money he. as a taxpayer, has already paid for. And then there's the interest the dealership will be clawing back from him, so in the end he'll have been lucky to have saved even five hundred quid on his new car, let alone two grand. He may even be in negative equity with the depreciation!

And don't forget that the prices went up in the first place in order for the money to be taken off, if he'd bought before the scrappage scheme started it would have had a lower starting price anyway.

I totally agree with everything you've said there, I don't just complain because of classic cars being wasted but agree with you that any car no matter how old or trendy, if it has an MoT and is useable, should not be scrapped.

I noticed today looking in the 'cars for sale' section of our local free paper that the 'under £500' section has become considerably smaller, if you can't afford a brand new car then tough.

[Furrtiv]

And I just got a vey nasty reply from someone on another forum (totally unconnected with this one), telling me to, basically, eff off! Just because he had mates in the car industry who've lost jobs - but hasn't British car manufacturing been going downhill for decades? Why didn't the government do anything about it in the 80s and 90s when the cracks really did start to show?
It seems that some people really do have the wool pulled over their opticals, it's just very sad. I have had friends who, in this current troubled climate, have had to seek further from home for low-paid jobs and need a cheap car - these could be resold to the like of them instead of being scrapped, crushed into cubes. At the very least, these cars should be broken for parts.
I guess I will continue to run my eleven-year-old Civic while saving the rest of my disposable income - what there is of it - for my dream Traveller, and just feel smug when all these people who#ve bought into the scheme start to feel the pinch in a few years' time when interest rates rise again (unless of course they're fixed?). At least i own my car outright!
It concerns me that the people on the lowest end of the scale when it comes to spending money may find themselves priced out of the used-car market by this scheme, as low-value but still viable older cars are all scrapped.

And there's no way I'm running for a parliamentary seat, I'm much too sensible! ;)

[Sidney'61]

So how many of the cars being sold in the scrappage scheme are actually made in Britain and affect british workers?

[Furrtiv]

Probably very few, it would be inteesting to see some verifiable figures on this.

And I have just written to my local MP thanks to WriteToThem, however as he's Labour I doubt I'll get through to him, unless he's a rebel backbencher.

[Blaketon]

To the moderators, this is my first and last statement which could in any way be construed to be political.

This isn’t the first time this topic has been discussed on this forum (See http://www.morrisminoroc.co.uk/index.ph ... highlight=). The problem with such topics is that since members of political parties (At least in theory) run the country, it is difficult to criticise policies, without criticising their exponents. There is an old saying that “Rules exist for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men” (Being an old saying, it says “Men” not “Persons” ). Whether excluding debate of all motoring legislation, on the grounds that it is “Political”, is a wise or obedient interpretation of the rules depends on your point of view.

The scrappage scheme appears to be a vote grabbing expedient, though whether the beneficiaries of it will remember it next year is another matter. Most people are not interested in keeping a car long term and the idea of a durable Morris Minor would be an anathema to them. Quite apart from not being terribly capable or even interested in terms of car maintenance, many motorists (Even if not actually interested in cars for their own sake), beyond seeing the car as a means of transport, see it as a reliable way of attaining status, whether on the road, in the works car park or in the neighbourhood. Much of this status is related to the age of their vehicle and so any scheme, which helps them to run a newer vehicle, will go down well (And hopefully attract votes). Equally important are “Reasons” by which plain old vanity can be masked. The classic one, so far as cars are concerned, is the myth that old cars are dirty polluters and new ones are all clean. This means that the new car buyers can claim that they are only thinking of the planet.

A primary aim of politicians is to obtain and retain power. Whether this is to feather their own nests or to pursue something, in which they passionately believe, is not terribly important, so far as this debate is concerned. What it means is that the major parties are not going to pay too much attention to the opinions of minority groups like us. If we take classic cars as a whole, I think there are about half a million in the UK. Although a sizeable number, compared with the numbers of “Normal” motorists or football supporters, we are a minority. Politicians are never going to openly encourage people to take a leaf out of our book and maximise the return on the resources used to build their cars, as this is not what the majority would want to hear.

Similarly, they will not want to fly in the face of the politically convenient myth that old cars are all polluters (This would also contradict some of the claims made in favour of the scrappage scheme), by reverting back to rolling road tax exemption for historics. Furthermore, such a move might offend the majority, who might take issue with “Those old bangers getting away without paying road tax”. I am not saying that the majority are right but they are the majority and when facts and politics conflict, politics always prevails. More important for me, than the payment of road tax, is the issue of definition – is a post 1972, non tax exempt, non “Historic” classic vehicle, officially a banger or a “Classic”?

The only chance that the classic car movement has of gaining concessions is when one of the two main parties has someone, with an interest in classic cars, in a position of authority. This was clearly the case when Kenneth Clarke brought in the rolling road tax exemption for historic vehicles. Having corresponded with the Labour government, at various times since 1998, I believe the present position reflects Gordon Brown’s bias against classic cars and the fact that there is nobody within his party (Or at least nobody with enough influence to change things) who has any interest in classic cars.

I don’t see any point in lobbying the present government/MPs over such issues as the scrappage scheme (Which may well be coming to an end soon) or historic road tax for that matter. Perhaps finding out what policy each party has may influence your votes next year (And I don’t believe you will find that either of the main parties, likely to form the next government, will have a policy other than the status quo). If the opinion polls and recent election result are any indication, it is likely that there will be a change of government next year. Whether this will be a good or a bad thing for the country is not the issue but so far as classic cars are concerned, I feel that the time to start lobbying is after the next election. I have no idea whether a Conservative government would pick up where Ken Clarke left off vis a vis road tax (I have been advised that they would but that was way back in William Hague’s days and since then they have been unwilling to reiterate it). The point I am making is that before an election is not the time to raise, what the major parties at least would consider to be very minor issues (Or is that Minor issues?). as they will be concentrating on getting the votes of Mr & Mrs "Average", especially the ones living in marginal seats.

[canterburyalan]

I run Skoda Octavias they are very good but have a short life since 2001 out of the 9 I have Owned 5 have been scraped (uneconimic to repair)

1 Went off to Poland for spares Still got 3 the 05 is on its last legs


My Morris Minor Just keeps going

[rayofleamington]

"Has anyone else had the urge to write to their MP about this?"

yes.

I've just been rebuilding the top end of a 96 Polo 1.4i... Despite being a good car it's no Morris Minor!

[Peetee]

he had mates in the car industry who've lost jobs - but hasn't British car manufacturing been going downhill for decades?

Not so long ago The German company I worked for was sold to British Aerospace. That gave me a certain sense of satisfaction as I have always bought British when the goods are comparable (I have had over a dozen bikes and all but one were British and made with Reynolds tubing - one industry where we still excell). BAE then bought Rover and many of my colleagues took advantage of the hefty discounts on new cars. However the number that were please with thier purchase was very low. Nearly all were problematical. The issues were all quality control ones; many had missing grommets causing leaks, loose trim, poor assembly/protection etc. I realised then that despite the massive investment and competitive modernity of the British car industry the simple fact was that the workforce were no more worthy of their jobs than they were in the 70's.
That doesn't make me feel proud at all.

[rayofleamington]

Nearly all were problematical. The issues were all quality control ones; missing grommets, loose trim, poor assembly/protection.

The same can be said of many German cars - however people who buy german are convinced about the high quality, even when the evidence is the opposite. It has long been 'normal' to knock British products, whether they are bad or good.

Ever notice that if a Rover made it into the bottom 5 of a quality survey it made the front pages of the national papers. In the last year of Rover, the 200 made it into the TOP 5 above Hondas and Toyotas, but nobody ever heard aout it.

[Dean]

Ever notice that if a Rover made it into the bottom 5 of a quality survey it made the front pages of the national papers. In the last year of Rover, the 200 made it into the TOP 5 above Hondas and Toyotas, but nobody ever heard aout it.

Annoying or what! VW has been well down the bottom end of the JD survey for a few years now... guess what, nothing is mentioned of this. They are still the most popular badge in Europe...