Horrible noise from wheel

Post by **R_Parr** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:54 am

Hello all, bought the parts - 4 bolts for fixing the front shock absorber to the body and 2 locking tab washers on saturday but haven't arrived yet. I see this has been quite a hot topic in regards of the safety and knowledge of young inexperienced drivers like myself, however I bought myself a Morris Minor for this very reason - to discover and fix problems myself.

I may have a lack of knowledge but I understand a problem when I see/hear one and I always ask my dad firstly and then come onto this site for the many years of knowledge which you people have and I greatly appreciate the help I recieve!

It's (hopefully) a small problem but I shall keep you posted.

Post by **cormorant** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:56 am

It might be helpful if someone could tell this chap (or indeed all of us) how to repair this area if the threads have stripped out of the captive plate? That one bolt does look stripped out to me. I am going to withdraw my bolts one at a time now and grease and replace them as a precaution.
Anyone tackled this before? It's such an important area of the car from a safety point of view I think we could all learn something from it.

Post by **autolycus** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:21 pm

R_Parr wrote:
I may have a lack of knowledge but I understand a problem when I see/hear one

Compare and contrast

About a week ago i noticed the front left wheel made a terrible noise when going over bumps and small holes in the road. This sound has gradually got worse through the week

I'm sorry, but those statements aren't compatible.

It's (hopefully) a small problem but I shall keep you posted.

But how will you assess whether it's a small or big problem? And can you work out a safe way of removing that last remnant of a bolt? The reinforcing plate on the under-bonnet side of the bulkhead looks as though it's peeling away from the bulkhead at its corner. Is it? And are those marks cracks on the shock absorber body (by the bolt hole)?

I'm minor-less at present (still looking for a white convertible), so I don't know how accessible the reverse side of the threaded plate is. I assume reasonably so, as the Book of Words says that early cars (at least) had nuts and spring washers rather than captive nuts or a tapped plate. If it's even contortionist-accessible, I'd consider drilling out the remnants of the threaded holes and fitting longer bolts with nuts and spring washers on the inside - assuming there's something non-squashable for them to tighten against.

Kevin

Post by **Peetee** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:00 pm

I always ask my dad firstly and then come onto this site for the many years of knowledge which you people have and I greatly appreciate the help I recieve

It was clear from your first post that neither of you had any idea of the function of the item that was loose. If you had then you would have had some concept of the lucky escape you have had. If you needed to come onto this forum to ask what the problem was then neither of you should attempt to fix it.

I'm not exagerating when I say that this sort of failure can kill and you simply will not know if you have done the job properly.

Please please please get this sorted by a pro.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:10 pm

Oh all yee of little faith - I'm sure this will be perfectly fixable at home ! 'Dad' is going to help - and Dad's are great!

Post by **Peetee** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:14 pm

Oh all yee of little faith - I'm sure this will be perfectly fixable at home ! 'Dad' is going to help - and Dad's are great!

This is a dad that doesn't recognise something that holds the wheel upright remember.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:17 pm

I know - I know - but Dads can learn too you know !

Post by **R_Parr** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:21 am

Im getting a right telling off!

It is in process of getting fixed - the wisdom of dad's is truely amazing!

Post by **d_harris** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:58 am

You need to remember that what you have experienced here is a very significant and dangerous problem one that if not sorted correctly could be fatal.

By all means have a go but remember that, as always, if you have any doubt get someone with experience to check/re-do your work.

What I suspect you will encounter is stripped threads (you will be able to notice this because the bolts will turn very easily and will never be tight) if you have this problem then its worth getting a pro invoved because for the damper this is not an easy thing to put right.

What you will need to do is get one bolt in (the one opposite the bolt thats currently in if that makes sense) loosely with the tab washer between the damper itself and the bolt head and get the other two bolts in loosely too (remember the second tab washer) remove the last original bolt and place straight in the bin (it will almost certainly be scrap) get the last bolt in (through the tab washer) and tighten.

Off the top of my head, I can't work out whether it would be easier with the wheel on the ground or the car on stands - I blame lack of sleep at this point

I'm not sure that an official torque figure exists for these bolts but they need to be quite tight but not over-done. Once all 4 are in use a hammer and a screwdriver to bend the tab washers such that they are tight against the flat of the bolt head - the purpose of this is to stop the bolts working loose and the problem repeating itself. It might be worth using threadlock in this instance too.

If the threads aren't stripped then it should be a fairly straightforward job, but if you have any problems, I implore you to get someone with the knowhow to come and have a look. We will help you to the ends of the earth here (we are nice like that) but that is no substiture for actually being there

Edit: If all seems to go swimmingly then it would be worth checking the bolts on a regular basis for a while (I'd suggest just opening the bonnet before setting off) might be worth marking them with tip-ex or something similar so you know the bolt position

Post by **autolycus** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:05 am

R_Parr wrote:Im getting a right telling off!

Hmmm. Hardly. A little more - how shall we put it? - acceptance that you may have had one lucky escape but may not be so lucky next time? - would have helped. Peetee is dead right in what he's said.

It is in process of getting fixed - the wisdom of dad's is truely amazing!

I don't think anyone's questioned his wisdom - just his knowledge. Will you share with us what you found, and how you're going to fix it? Enquiring minds need to know these things.

Kevin

Post by **mike.perry** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:57 pm

As far as I can see the logical way to replace a captive nut is to cut a hole in the inner wing to gain access to the inside of the cross member then weld the hole up afterwards. Early cars, MMs with the straight cross member, have the top two damper bolts mounted above the cross member

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:01 pm

Are they captive 'nuts' - or is it a captive 'plate' with threaded holes ?? And there are those mysterious additional threaded holes - near the damper mounting holes - which are un-accounted for !

Post by **d_harris** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:12 pm

I was looking at those earlier on the Series 2 and wondering what in heck they were for

Post by **mike.perry** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:36 am

Grumpys used to use the two extra holes for their engine stabaliser kit.
My Series MM parts book shows 4 nuts with a comment "Finished at car 151321" so maybe it is now a plate. One way to find out.

Post by **Declan_Burns** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:39 am

That Grumpy kit is actually very good. Here's a photo for information of my modified version. It is currently out of stock.
Declan
http://morrisminorspares.co.uk/shop/pro ... 41564_6259[/img]<br>

Post by **alex_holden** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:30 pm

This is what it looks like inside the crossmember of a 1970 car with the inner arch removed:<br>

I'm sure someone said the extra holes enable you to fit a different, larger-bodied Armstrong damper. No idea why production cars all have the extra holes when the bigger damper was never factory-fitted.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:37 pm

Excellent picture Alex - well done. I would love to find the larger dampers !!

Post by **Kevin** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:38 pm

This really does sound like a near miss and why you should stop driving if you hear serious noises, I hope I am mistaken but it does look like there is only one bolt still in place and that the upper right might have sheared off due to the shiney appearance, as others have suggested you really need someone who is a bit more knowlegeable, have you contacted the local branch to see if there is somone nearby who could help out.

Post by **MarkyB** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:49 pm

As Kevin says noises like you car were making shouldn't be ignored.
Not "a right telling off! " just common sense really.
The extra holes could be very useful, find a short bolt that fits in one and do it up before you start the job.
Then if the metal that captivates the the plate has rusted away the plate still wont move.
I've done one which included that "OH bother"* moment when you hear the plate fall back into the box section.

*Not my exact words