Could I enter a concours?

Post by **littleblackflash** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:03 pm

Hello All,

I'm very new to morris owning and I have what I think is a stunning morris but not much of it is original 1959.
What classes as a concours car? He's some pics for now.

Post by **8009STEVE** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:55 am

JUDGE!

Post by **LouiseM** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:33 am

If you are an MMOC member, there was an article on page 8 of the May / June 2009 Minor Matters about concours standards. Basically vehicles should be in the condition that they left the factory but the guidelines have changed this year so the best thing to do is contact the chief concours judge Richard Lee who can provide further details and a copy of the 2009 judging guidelines. His contact details are in Minor Matters but pm me if you don't have your copy to hand.

You could also attend rallies to see the standard of the cars there and have a chat to the owners.

Post by **RogerRust** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:40 am

Not Judges bag anymore.

I used to have a concours 4 door.

Yes I would certainly enter your Trav in a concours class. The feed back you get will help you to improve the car and it's a lot of fun.

You've missed most of the club rallies with concours.

I think the last one is,

September 13th Midlands Regional Rally at Chatsworth you can find details in 'Whats On' in the left hand menu.

Good luck

Post by **Judge** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:12 am

RogerRust wrote:Not Judges bag anymore.

No, but I don't mind admitting that after seven years as CCJ I still miss it

Oh well

PS llittleblackflash, I would have to knock off a few points for that shiny dash pot, and missing Lucas sticker on the wiring harness. However this would be under the old rules

Post by **Ian46** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:22 pm

Same Concours standards apply for 2009 so I understand.

Very nice Traveller by the way.

There are a couple of other quick details you could carry out to make the engine bay a little 'sharper'.

There is a 'Lucas' sticker missing from the petrol pump aswell.
The bonnet folding support should be resprayed satin black (complete with spring).
The two long heater hoses should have a large rubber 'ring' keeping them together at the midpoint.
There shouldn't be any copper elements on show in the engine bay, so the spark plug lead ends and heater bypass hose running next to the rocker box should be painted gloss black.
The vacuum advance line and bulb are usually painted the same colour as the engine.
I would take advice on the carb dash pot top but I have a suspicion that it should be the black plastic type for '59.

In my humble opinion I think it would be well worth you attending the Northern Regional Rally to be held at Chatsworth House in Derbyshire in September.

Regards Ian

Post by **LouiseM** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:27 pm

Same Concours standards apply for 2009 so I understand.

I was going by an earlier thread posted here in March which suggested that changes had been made.

Either way, it would be worth the original poster contacting Richard Lee to get full details and express an interest in entering concours.

Post by **Judge** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:48 pm

Ian46 wrote:Same Concours standards apply for 2009 so I understand.

Very nice Traveller by the way.

There are a couple of other quick details you could carry out to make the engine bay a little 'sharper'.

There is a 'Lucas' sticker missing from the petrol pump aswell.
The bonnet folding support should be resprayed satin black (complete with spring).
The two long heater hoses should have a large rubber 'ring' keeping them together at the midpoint.
There shouldn't be any copper elements on show in the engine bay, so the spark plug lead ends and heater bypass hose running next to the rocker box should be painted gloss black.
The vacuum advance line and bulb are usually painted the same colour as the engine.
I would take advice on the carb dash pot top but I have a suspicion that it should be the black plastic type for '59.

In my humble opinion I think it would be well worth you attending the Northern Regional Rally to be held at Chatsworth House in Derbyshire in September.

Regards Ian

Are you absolutely sure about all of these points Ian?

However littleblackflash, if you do decide to enter concours, don't worry if everything is not 100% correct first time round. Improving your car is all part of the fun, so just enjoy it.

Post by **pfgiz** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:02 pm

I’m interested in this from a spectator position. Personally I love the original cars as much as those that have been personalised by each owner. I’ve always thought that concourse cars where as near to ‘Show-room’ as possible. What’s stumped me is that all of the people who have commented have noticed stickers missing and unpainted brass but not mentioned the brake servo sitting on the driver’s side tie plate. Is this classed as ‘a modification that can be specified before marking’ and therefore not open for comment?
I can’t wait to see these cars at an event and hope this Traveller will be one of them as it is a very nice, tidy and honest example and should be admired.
Personally I like driving mine at the moment too much to concentrate on the detail but maybe, after I have the Traveller on the road, I may re-build mine with a view on concourse but that’s for another year.

Post by **littleblackflash** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:28 pm

Thanks for all the kind comments and being new to MM ownership I am unaware about the stickers and things. Here was the engine back in Dec 08

As you can see, I've put a few hours in making the car we wanted and enjoy rather than original.

However I would like to do some shows and concours sounds an additional fun. I don't think it would ever win because white was not a colour option in 1959. Maybe over time I may add some stickers and paint more bits but thats all in the fun of owning this car (among others)

I'm in sunny Chichester, west sussex. Is there any shows closer to home?

Seats have just been recovered and if its sunny tomorrow I'll finish the interior and post some more pics.

Post by **stevey** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:45 pm

whats the ruling on updated lighting such as the later sidelights/ indicators?

Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:53 pm

doing a nice job but..

what about the servo unit? i would have thought that would have to be removed for concours may be one of the judges will correct me on that though

Post by **littleblackflash** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:05 pm

I like the idea of concours but I'd rather have the car I want rather than 100% original. Hence servo stays.

Having said that I keep reading Ian's post and now I'm searching the web like crazy to find out where these stickers shoud go. Anyone got any pics?

Post by **pfgiz** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:29 pm

If you read the rules for concourse there are some modifications that, if you notify the judges, won't loose you points. I was just asking if this was one, I'm hoping a judge will be along soon to advise.
Even though I don't have one I can see the benefits of a servo, I'm thinking of fitting one in the Spitfire as the brakes don't feel as positive as the Minor ones.

Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:46 am

sorry littleblackflash, i have just read my previous post and it does sound a bit critical, where it certainly was not meant that way..

i think the sticker can be seen on the fuel pump on this page..

http://images.google.co.uk/images?rlz=1 ... =en&tab=wi

the link on the photo takes you to a traders site and the pic is no better

Post by **RogerRust** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:50 am

You might be penalised for additions like the brake servo and sidelights, but it the scheme of thing you won't be excluded. I used to get a report sheet identifying where I lost points - I remember painting my tie rods and torsion bars silver to gain an extra couple of points in 600 or so and changing plastic cable ties for metal straps to pick up a few more. Every little helps!

I don't know if it's still the case but there were four classes in concours, merit, gold, masters, and grand masters. I was at the top of gold and looking for extra points to move up to masters. Then I sold the car!

Post by **pfgiz** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:24 am

Is it the case then that a brake servo will cost you a point but you can get it back by painting tie bars or getting the sticker on your fuel pump sorted?
Sounds like a challenge. I can now see why it draws so much interest.
I thought it was all cleaning out your tyre treads with a toothbrush and touching up springs that had chipped.
What this is convincing me is that an everyday car could well be a concourse too, given the right type of love and enough time.

Post by **littleblackflash** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:45 am

Thanks Charlie,
I can't find that blue sticker for sale. I can find a yellow one;

http://morrisminorspares.co.uk/shop/pro ... 7eefc3c92e

I guess this is not the same.

Does anyone have some pictures of a concours morris they can show so I can spot the differences?

Post by **wimor** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:33 pm

I think the yellow is the right one.

For more information take a look in "Original Morris Minor" by Ray Newell.

Example

(moderated - LouiseM)

Post by **pfgiz** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:39 pm

Ian46 wrote:There shouldn't be any copper elements on show in the engine bay, so the spark plug lead ends and heater bypass hose running next to the rocker box should be painted gloss black.

wimor wrote:
(Moderated - LouiseM)

Surely not. Although the pipe for the water is painted black the tops of the spark plug leads are copper. Which is correct?