Traveller sill - double skinned?!

Post by **Dryad** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:41 am

I always thought sills consisted of the boxing panel, the inner step and the floor sill, but having a look at my '68 Traveller I can see a panel inside which is spot welded to the top of the inner step panel and also along what was the original floor sill panel, forming a rust trapping sandwich. The inner step and the 'extra' panel all look original and are not bodge repairs. Is this normal?

<br>

<br>

Post by **jonathon** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:05 pm

We have had travellers in with double sill's too, unusual for us but for those in the know, maybe not ??

Post by **rayofleamington** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:29 pm

the factory convertibles had a double skinned, spotwelded, inner step.
IIRC, the inner step is the same between saloons and travellers, so maybe it was a case of using available parts if there was an over-stock or under-stock problem in the factories.

Post by **Dryad** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:07 pm

Of all the resto project travellers available, I had to pick one with a double skinned sill!

Ho hum.
So, would it be safe to drill out the spot welds and remove it, as long as the inner step and boxing panel are sound? I don't like the idea of a rust trap in there.

Post by **taupe** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:58 pm

Hi

I think most travellers had them. My two certainly did. They always seem to be rotted out at the bottom - its the classic rust sandwich!

The easy way to check if they were fitted is to feel for the extra angle inside the top of the step sill.

They were approx 18SWG which means that with the step sill there is nearly 3mm of steel.

There is a repair panel available from MM birmingham.

I have just ordered two from Denmark! I think they are Srilankan origin.

If your not going to replace it then I would at least leave the top part in the step sill - just clean up the bottom edge and rust treat it.

Regards

Taupe

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:02 pm

Pretty sure we had a thread about this recently - and opinion was that Travellers had the extra strengthening sill parts from new.

Post by **eastona** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:00 pm

Having just swept up Maurice's sills from the garage floor

I need to replace both sides (and the floor/crossmember).

Does anyone have a diagram of the traveller sills including this strengthener?

I did my four door last year and so I know the arrangement Dryad (ex matelot?) is talking about for those, but am not familiar with the traveller arrangement. Are they really all like that or just some?

At least I got time today to crack on with it, got given a rust free bonnet for free and was treated to an aerobatic display by a spitfire while picking it up. A pretty good day

(I knew the sills were rubbish, so I was expecting rust, but found myself repeatedly cursing people who slapped on new sills over old. Sounds like Morris are also culprits

)

Do I have to replace it with the strengthening bit? or is that a silly question?

Andrew

Post by **nslocomotive2** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:30 pm

double sill , urghhh, double the rot ...

Post by **taupe** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:47 pm

Hi

Here is a rough sketch of the strengthener. Not quite sure what happens at the bottom as I havent seen one without this rotted out yet!!

If you feel a seam inside the top of the step sill - you know your traveller had one of these.

Post by **Dryad** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:49 pm

double sill , urghhh, double the rot ...

Exactly MY thoughts, Nigel!

Still, if it adds extra strength it can't be all bad.

maybe it was a case of using available parts if there was an over-stock or under-stock problem in the factories

Possibly, although you would think you would find saloons with it as well (non convertibles).

Not quite sure what happens at the bottom as I havent seen one without this rotted out yet!!

I think your drawing is spot on, taupe. Some of mine survives and it looks like that.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:11 pm

Possibly, although you would think you would find saloons with it as well (non convertibles).

there are some saloons with the extra strengtheners from convertibles under the dash...
but it sounds normal for travellers -I've only ever had one and that had messy sills so at least I know where the extra rotten metal came from now!

Post by **eastona** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:43 am

That's a great diagram Taupe. Not sure if mine has it as there are lots of bits of metal in there. I'm going to have to do some archeology and see if it's got one.

If it has I'm reluctant to put it back because it's a terrible rust trap, but I want a strong traveller, one not liable to fold in the middle. What about welding some galvanised steel in to try to get around the rust problem (bearing in mind though, it's dangerously fumey to weld).

Birmingham seem to be quite cheap for panels, there 1/2 floor certainly appears cheaper than ESM.

Andrew

Post by **taupe** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:32 pm

Hi Estonia

Im not sure what the specific purpose of the strengthener was as it finishes just behind the B post after the seat belt mounting which it also reinforces. If it was meant to stop the car folding in half you would expect it to run further back towards the wheelarch.

I suspect its more to do with stopping the car flexing diagonally and putting some more stiffness into the cab - it does appear to tie the floor extension to the step sill as well which I would think gives lots of strength until it rusts out!. The set out at the bottom is I guess Morrisses attempt to reduce the rust sandwich (capillary) problem and to clear the step in the floor. Whilst as I say these are usually rusted out - the whole sill bottom is usually rusted including the boxing plate etc. so I think its not a problem in its own right.

There must be quite a lot of travellers out there where these have not been fitted during restoration and if the metal is sound I doubt it makes all that much difference.

I wouldnt use galvanised steel at all due to the nasty fumes as you say.

You could use electrozinc such as Zintec steel but in my experience this rusts out almost as quickly in sills and whats important is maintaining proper protection within the sills such as Dinitrol or regular waxoyling.

On the minor we are spoilt as we have an access panel!!

Post by **eastona** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:37 pm

It looks like mine has them fitted, or should I say "had", because the bottom half seems to have rusted away, along with most of the sills.

Not sure when it stops because it's all such a mess in there.

I know what you mean about the waxing. My saloon gets a good dose of waxoyl at least once a year. It's a pleasantly satisfying job.

Andrew

Post by **Stig** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:56 pm

eastona wrote: What about welding some galvanised steel in to try to get around the rust problem (bearing in mind though, it's dangerously fumey to weld).

How about weld-through zinc primer instead? I'd recommend using that on surfaces you won't be able to paint afterwards. Probably has nasty fumes too but hasn't killed me yet.

Post by **Dryad** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:06 pm

That's what I'll be using on mine. Bought a load of Bilt Hamber etchweld stuff as it got top reviews in Practical Classics. I got a quote from Nordisk Morris Minor in Denmark for the two strengthening panels - £87 inc. postage. I think I might be fabricating my own...

Post by **rich-legg** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:08 pm

For reference, here is a photo of the panel. Most of it is rusted away front & bacl, but the centre section is intact.
You can see the bottom lips horazontaly, up to the join.

Post by **Dryad** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:02 pm

Good photos! Mine was in about the same state as yours, so what I've done is cut the strengthening panel back to where it is rust free, then I'll make up the lower section with the lip. I'll clean back to bare metal first and spray with etch weld.