What is the best method for replacing the timing chain

Post by **ssnjimb** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:39 am

Hello Folks

What would the best method of changing my timing chain on my 1098 minor.

Do i need to remove the front panel to make it easier.

I hear of people saying that its hard to remove the bottom pully what do i need to do to remove that.

James

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:21 pm

You need to loosen the starter dog - a pipe wrench on the dog - resting on the nearside chassis leg - jab the starter using the button under the bonnet - so it cannot start! Best to remove the radiator - front panel - it's up to you - it can be done in situ. Remove fan belt. Pulley the pulley off - undo all the little screws and remove the cover. Knock back the lock tab - set the engine to TDC and note the dots on the two pulleys are lined up - if they are not - turn the engine another 360 degrees until they do. Loosen/remove the nut on the camshaft - ease the two pulleys and chain off the shafts. Remove chain - remove the 'tensioner' hoops in the cam sprocket - fit new hoops - fit new chain and rfit the sprockets to the shafts making SURE the dots line up exactly as before. Take care to NOT dislodge the keys in the shafts - or to turn either shaft. Tighten the nut - knock over the locktab. Fit new seal in timing case - and new gasket on the front plate. Refit timing case - and nip-up the screws just loose - fit the pulley and the dog - turn the engine over using the starting handle to square up the timing case seal on the pulley shaft - then tighten the screws - take care to NOT strip any of them. Refit fan belt. Refit rad - and Bob is the Uncle !

Post by **cormorant** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 3:50 pm

Why not fit the duplex timing chain conversion while you have it all out? Not that expensive and rumoured to last a lot longer.

Post by **MarkyB** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:18 pm

I agree with cormorant, go for the duplex chain.
You'll have to remove the front as there are 2 bolts at the bottom that have to be replace with countersunk items (and the holes countersunk)
2 big nuts hold the bumper. 10 (I think) 7/16ths nuts and bolts hold the front on along with the 6 little nuts that hold the hockey sticks.
Couple of jubilee clips for top and bottom hose. Don't forget the bonnet release rod.
Start cleaning the mud etc. off the hockey stick nuts now and splash some Plusgas* on them and all the 7/16ths nuts and bolts.
Once you've done one with the front off you will be better prepared to try doing it without but if you use the duplex chain that will be a very long time in the future.

* Other penetrating oils are available (WD40 doesn't count)

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:09 pm

You would actually be better off fitting the later Mini type timing arrangement - with a proper tensioner! You have to part-drill a small hole to locate the pivot pin for the tensioner - that's all ! The chain remains the same - and it is well able to drive a standard cam and valve springs etc - and very much quieter than the standard set-up - the duplex by the way is not quiet - it has NO tensioner arrangements! Duplex is only required if using long period/high lift cam - and/or much stronger valve springs.

Post by **ssnjimb** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:46 pm

Hello

I have changed the chain on my car and it has not made any difference whatsoever.

There does not appear to be a tensioner of anykind installed on my engine.

I only used the chain and the gasket papers in the kit i got from bull motif.

What are the very large rubber circles for and the white fluffy cirlcle

James

linearaudio · Post by **linearaudio** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:42 am

ssnjimb wrote:Hello

I have changed the chain on my car and it has not made any difference whatsoever.

There does not appear to be a tensioner of anykind installed on my engine.

I only used the chain and the gasket papers in the kit i got from bull motif.

What are the very large rubber circles for and the white fluffy cirlcle

James

Haven't delved, but someone told me the rubber ring things were an anti-rattle device, fit on the sprocket in some way?

I'm sure someone here will elucidate when they get up

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:38 am

Yes - the rings slide into the grooves on the camshaft pulley - they are the 'tensioner' device. thye must be replaced along with the chain - unless converting to the very much better Mini type with proper spring-loaded tensioner. I'm surprised none of the suppliers are selling this as a 'kit' - would be a lot more useful than a lot of the stuff they do sell! the white ring would be the timing case oil seal -only for early cars. Later have much superior proper rubber lip seal.

Post by **ssnjimb** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:43 am

Can anyone send me a picture of the rubber rings installed.

I basicly put it back as i found it as i could not find by blue BL morris minor book.

James

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:09 pm

Although the Manual doesn't actually bother to mention the rings in their short story of 'replacing the timing chain' - they are shown on page AA10 - item 64. If you want a copy of the manual - PM me.

Post by **millerman** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:02 pm

Mini timing chain with tensioner, good BUT you will need the timing chain case to go with it ( been there, done that) to allow room for the tensioner.

SO, go for the duplex chain, it will save a lot of hassle

Post by **MarkyB** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:32 pm

Does the hole not need to be tapped?
Countersinking is much simpler.
Once you have gone to the effort of replacing the chain it is definately worth going the extra to improve the set-up.
With the rubber bands the chain will be rattling again within a few years.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:07 pm

Yes - you need the timing case with bulge in the side. Get the whole lot off a Mini engine. Only one small hole to part drill (ie not right through into the block) to hold the head of the tensioner swivel pin. All the other holes are there already. It's a MUCH better idea than the duplex - which is strong of course - but NOT quiet. It doesn't have ANY tensioner system!

Post by **M25VAN** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:44 pm

I've just got the bits to fit a mini timing cover and tensioner. It all looks like a simple swap over but how do I setup the tensioner assembly? Presumaly the clearance hole for the pivot pin is just to allow the tensioner assembly to bolt flat to the plate so if I make it slightly oversize it should compensate for any alighnment errors in where I drill it.
Also how is the tensioner adjusted initially? Is it just pushed against the chain to take up slack and tightened up?
Lastly I read somewhere that timing will now be on No.2 instead of No.1 is this correct?
Hoping to do this in the next couple of weeks and will take pics.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:11 pm

Yes - you just use your judgement on how much pre-load to put on the tensioner. Not too much ! The little hole is just to hold the head of the swivel pin - so not at all critical. But don't drill it right through - it's just a shallow blind hole. And whoever told you to time on #2 is pulling your leg!

Post by **M25VAN** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:43 pm

Thanks for that, I'll give it all a go soon. I remembered where I'd read about the timing changing now, it was in the tech tips manual. I think the timing marks on the cover are moved around on the mini cover and so correspond to No.2 cylinder?

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:38 pm

Errr - NO! Don't worry about timing marks - you don't need them! When you got all the parts (are they secondhand from a Mini?) - did you by any chance manage to get a crankshaft damper at the same time ? Well worth having if you can find one!