steam and oil all over the place... - now engine change

Post by **nslocomotive2** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:24 pm

Hi peoples.

I think my head gasket blew big time today. I was on my way to pick up a new head gasket and complete gasket set for the engine when it happened, I was but a stones throw away.

My question is this I had just taken her along a section of dual carriage way and she sounded a bit hissy when she came off the slip road, as soon as it was safe I pulled over and she was whisping with steam under her wings, I pulled the bonet up and smoke and steam prevailed, fresh oil all down the side of the block.

My question is, is there a likelihood Ive done more damage to the engine, do I need to think about replacing bearings and piston rings or whatever? As Im sending my dad to get the bits in the morning I would like to get everything im likely to need, BTW I have another car with a running 1098 engine in it, and If needs must i could borrow it for this one

advice would be greatly appreciated as I am about to learn big style about the internals of my engine.

regards

Nigel

Post by **mike.perry** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:02 pm

Hopefully it is just a blown head gasket that has blown across a water and oil passage.
Check that you still have oil and water then try starting the engine. If it fires on less than 4 cylinders then it is likely to be the gasket. Look for oil / water leaking from between the head and block. Check where the oil pressure warning light feed pipe comes out of the block just behind the distributor in case that has broken.
If there is a horrible clattering noise when you start up switch off quickly, the big ends will have gone (unlikely).
I would just buy a head gasket set, you cannot buy a complete rebuild kit until you know what is wrong, and you will no know until you lift the head

Post by **alainmoran** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:14 pm

I was once told to take a 'straight edge' and move it across the surface of the block while shining a light from behind as it should show up any major warps ... good luck, hopefully it will just be the gasket.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:57 pm

Don't understand why there would be 'oil' all over the place. Very very unlikely a head gasket failing would breach the tiny oil passage to the rockers. Can you see where the oil has escaped ? I would NOT attempt a restart - just lift the head - but do look for the source of that oil. May be a good idea to loosen the fixing bolts on that other engine !

Post by **nigelr2000** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:24 am

Oh dear if you need any help give me a bell Nigel as I have to take my son to lattitude tommorow afternoon so could swing past yours on the way back (o7767two609sixsix in case you dont have it any more)

Post by **nslocomotive2** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:15 pm

Ok here goes on what was done today, got head off and found lots. photos first and the in will explane.
1) engine block with head off,

2) engine block with head off from the side,

3) head all scummey and gasket,

4) the worst two, oh and a knackered exhaust valve

5) close up of knackered valve,

6) shot from inside cabin looking at gearbox,

Ok so the list of problems.

1) no gaskets, and I mean no gaskets.... either they long since rotted but judging by the amount of instant gasket been used i imagine the cretin who had this apart before didn't take the time to invest in some.
2) head gasket had blown.
3) exhaust valve blown.
4) gearbox casing has a strange aluminum plate screwed to the nearside of the casing looks as if it is leaking oil which may be a cracked case.
5) every gasket was either non-existent or had been squashed out of shape and was letting oil past.
6) now the front pannel is off I need to do some welding in the engine bay.
7) I have also notice the brake resivour pipe is rubbing against the clutch pedal

I got sun burnt.

next job to get the engine bay repaired and cleaned up ready for the lump to be swapped out for my other one. then think about what to do with this hulk weather to rebuild or offer it out for repair and buy a bigger lump like a spriget engine... hmm

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:24 pm

Pistons don't look too bad. That exhaust valve must have been causing rough running for quite a while - until the head gasket let go. Don't see why there would be an 'oil' escape - and don't see this plate you refer to on the gearbox ? I reckon with a good clean-up - and 4 new exhaust valves - that engine will be ok. Obviously you should check the bores -I can't see them - and I have no idea what state the crank bearings are in. You could drop the sump and check the centre main - but if you have another good running engine - a swap will be the faster way back on the road.

Post by **nslocomotive2** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:35 pm

Yea I did de coke the pistons before I noticed the valve, they were quite scummy but very black, but the bores are fine, no signs of scoring, the plate is on the side of the box to underneath, you cant see it on here, I will scramble under tomorow and take a shot of it for you to see. I will swap them out, as I know im loosing oil from the box anyway. just seams a little annoying that this car seams to be full of little unexpected little botches all the time.... but then it is an old car...

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:39 pm

Ah well - if the bores are good - and a bearing check is not too frightening - I would just fit new valves and a new head gasket. You could pinch the head off the other engine .....

Post by **nslocomotive2** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:44 pm

yea I did think about that one, might do so yet, just want to get to the bottom of this plate thing on the box, and it leaking oil, now I have the chance to get it out and have a look I might just take the opportunity. I need to remove the engine and box from the other one to do some repairs to the body anyhow so it all makes sense.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:46 pm

Ok - just depends how important it is to get this car on the road again! You do say it's your 'daily driver' - so if that means it takes you to work - then could be ubber important!!

Post by **nslocomotive2** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:01 am

I agree with the ubber importance, but im thinking I don't wanna have to do all this again in a few months, so Id rather do as much now as i can, i recon i will have this boxed back up in a few weeks weather permitting.

BMC, heres that plate on the gearbox it leaks really badly, i don't think its supposed to be there, im thinking about stripping it and replacing gaskets / bearings to give it a fighting chance, but if this is a bodge then I might consider a new box. BTW the gearbox cross memeber was welded on ....

heres the full lump on the garage floor, I now have an engine bay to clean, weld in a few patches/repairs and paint.

Post by **Dean** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:58 am

Off topic, but the brake pipe assembly coming out of the master cylinder looks strange?

The pipe that comes out the back of the MS on my car goes to the rear of the car via the back of the chassis leg. The pipe that goes to the side via a banjo goes out the side of the leg then over the gear box cross member along the side of the chassis leg to the front of the car by the brake light switch..

linearaudio · Post by **linearaudio** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:25 am

Dean wrote:Off topic, but the brake pipe assembly coming out of the master cylinder looks strange?

The pipe that comes out the back of the MS on my car goes to the rear of the car via the back of the chassis leg. The pipe that goes to the side via a banjo goes out the side of the leg then over the gear box cross member along the side of the chassis leg to the front of the car by the brake light switch..

I sincerely hope that reinforced plastic fuel pipe has only been fitted over the steel pipe as some kind of protection! Don't give much for its high pressure capabilities, though a friend of mine did try to repair a steel brake pipe on an old Nova by using ordinary fuel pipe and cable ties to hold the two broken halves together. He asked me if I had any jubilee clips, as the cable ties let the joint blow apart when he braked.....

Post by **MarkyB** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:11 pm

I think it is for a remote reservoir so not pressurised.
Looks a bit bodged but should work OK.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:18 pm

Indeed - it's some form of remote reservoir.
We really need to see what's under that 'plate' held on the side of the gearbox - with a single screw!

Post by **nslocomotive2** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:58 am

yes you are all correct it is a remote reservoir, no problem I will hopefully get some time to remove the offending plate either tonight or tomorrow eve.

Post by **nslocomotive2** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:28 am

ok here it is

Im thinking this is a terminal gear box, what do you guys think?

linearaudio · Post by **linearaudio** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:43 am

I'm sure someone will shoot me down, but that looks a bit like a deliberate flame cut hole, maybe a previous ownerto inspect the clutch mechanism?? If so, although yukky, it's not to be worried about as there shouldn't be any oil to leak out from there other than general seal leaks which you could get whether the hole was there or not!

Post by **nslocomotive2** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:52 am

cool, that sounds a bit better, I know it was leaking oil, and I'm assuming this could be fixed by replacing some seals / bearings? next step with this one is to put the engine and box at the back of the garage, and get the repairs done to the body work. The gearbox crossmember was welded on under the master cylinder and a lot of metal fell out of the front when we removed the front panel, so a bit of work to make good there with repair patches, some Hamerite in the engine bay, and then I will extract the box and engine from my other car to tie me over until i get this one rebuilt.

This is turning into three main jobs, replacing the valves. replacing the gearbox seals, and replacing any gaskets that did exist on the engine.